RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Jul 6, 2019 9:53:59 GMT -8
1)... who was willing to lie and cheat to get ahead. 2)... He doesn't do well with political figures, which includes leaders of most democratic societies. 3)...But the man lies. Constantly...He can't be trusted. 4)...Trump is basically an untrustworthy bully who whines when he doesn't get his way. 5)...The Supreme Court ruled against him and he whined... I numbered & color coded a few points in your post to make the response easier to follow - 1) If you are going to accuse a person of lying & cheating in business, it is only fair to give examples. Please note, using existing tax laws or bankruptcy rules is not lying or cheating, it is playing by the rules established by someone else.2) There is a phrase "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer". We don't need to coddle the leaders of Britain, France or Germany, we can talk straight with them and all will be fine. It is the Kim's & Putin's of the world that you need to bring close in order to know what they are up to. As far as an ability to get along with leaders of democratic societies, I believe that Benjamin Netanyahu would say that Trump is much better to deal with than Obama was.3) Most of Trump's "lies" are exaggerations, taking the truth of a subject and extending it to its extreme. He was a NY Real Estate mogul, it is no surprise that he does that. There is always a foundation of truth of what he says. Now compare that to each and every Democratic presidential hopeful. They all lie, the difference is they start from a position of being incorrect or lying. For example, they talk about the treatment of immigrants in detention centers. There are exactly ZERO immigrants in detention centers, the individuals in detention centers are illegal aliens. The left willingly lies and misuses language to try to get their way.4) That is one of the most emotional comments I have ever read. Just because someone objects to something not going their way does not mean they whine. Did you believe that President Obama whined about the Citizens United ruling when he brought it up at the State of the Union address?5) The ruling from the Supreme Court on this case was not that the question couldn't be included, but that they needed a different (better?) reason to include it. This was an odd ruling in that the question has been on the census every year for nearly a century until 2010 when Obama removed it. Again, you calling that response whining is more of a reflection of you than President Trump.If you want to hate President Trump, go ahead, it is a free country. He doesn't have the easiest personality to take, you can choose to look at the bad portions of it or the good portions, that is your prerogative. However, when you misrepresent the man and make emotional, opinionated comments about him and try to pass them off as factual, you really put yourself in the Snowflake Brigade. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 6, 2019 11:08:26 GMT -8
The loudest arguments about Trump are centered around his style / persona, and very little about anything measurable. He's just an easy target because he's so unpolished that he gets in his own way. It's interesting that those who like or support Trump refer to his glaring human deficiencies as style, persona and unpolished. Those perhaps less enamored with him refer to them as lacking character, integrity, honesty and maturity. It's not style or lack of polish that makes a man repeatedly cheat on his wife or lie every time he opens his mouth. I can only speak for myself when referring to whatever the litany of character flaws he has as "style". I consider "substance" to be the decisions he makes that improves our country. Is that better? |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jul 6, 2019 11:56:11 GMT -8
Not much. If Stalin took the Dow to record heights, reduced unemployment to generational lows, secured our southern border, and waved tariffs around like a child does a lollipop, would you refer to the litany of his character flaws as style?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 6, 2019 12:01:55 GMT -8
Sure. But I think you'll agree Trump's a few million deaths short though for me to compare the 2, or 3 if you want to throw Hitler in the mix.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Jul 6, 2019 12:10:13 GMT -8
The loudest arguments about Trump are centered around his style / persona, and very little about anything measurable. Pretty much everyone will stipulate he's probably the least polished, or likable president we've had in our lifetime. Here's the thing. I could care less about that. I want a strong economy, strong military, secure borders, and the gov't to stop finding more people to enable that need protection from themselves. People need to be encouraged to be self-reliant, not gov't dependent. These points are at the core of the differences between what I want, and what liberals want. It has nothing to do with Trump. He's just an easy target because he's so unpolished that he gets in his own way. Bingo! Right on the money Bick! |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jul 6, 2019 12:52:31 GMT -8
Sure. But I think you'll agree Trump's a few million deaths short though for me to compare the 2, or 3 if you want to throw Hitler in the mix. Let's not quibble over the details. You seem willing to accept an a-shole of a human being as long as his results are to your liking. I expect more than that from the leader of the free world. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 6, 2019 14:45:41 GMT -8
Sure. But I think you'll agree Trump's a few million deaths short though for me to compare the 2, or 3 if you want to throw Hitler in the mix. Let's not quibble over the details. You seem willing to accept an a-shole of a human being as long as his results are to your liking. I expect more than that from the leader of the free world. As a matter of fact, yes. Trump has actually helped me prioritize what's important. I'll accept an effective jerk over an ineffective nice guy. Clearly, everyone wants an effective nice guy. Unfortunately, it's been a while since one of them resided at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. So which would you prefer? |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Jul 6, 2019 15:02:48 GMT -8
Sure. But I think you'll agree Trump's a few million deaths short though for me to compare the 2, or 3 if you want to throw Hitler in the mix. Let's not quibble over the details. You seem willing to accept an a-shole of a human being as long as his results are to your liking. I expect more than that from the leader of the free world. Details? Stalin killed MILLIONS of his own people, Trump just calls people names. Yes, both could be considered A-holes, but the details really do make a distinction between the two. That kind of overreaction to Trumps faults, comparing him to Hitler & other murderous dictators, is exactly what will get Trump re-elected in 2020. I don't like Trumps personality or the way he carries himself, but when I hear people on the left (or you on this occasion) make him out to be some evil villain, I become a supporter. Many on the left considered Obama to be such a nice, slick President, someone who didn't embarrass the nation. Yet in front of a national audience, he laid out a horrible insult to Hillary Clinton "You are likable enough, Hillary". What kind of person says that to a woman in front of millions of people? An A-hole, thats who. Guess that makes Obama the same as Stalin,, except for the details... |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Jul 6, 2019 21:39:59 GMT -8
Sure. But I think you'll agree Trump's a few million deaths short though for me to compare the 2, or 3 if you want to throw Hitler in the mix. Let's not quibble over the details. You seem willing to accept an a-shole of a human being as long as his results are to your liking. I expect more than that from the leader of the free world. Well, if a Democrat wins in 2020 then you'll get the two-fer: an a-shole of human being--with crappy results to boot. America has been getting crappy results in too many areas for 30 years now; Trump ain't my pastor or my neighbor. To my mind he's exactly what we needed to start bringing us back--however fitfully and without polish--to a place of common sense in this country. To me this is an easy choice, but I do understand your point....and it is respected. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jul 8, 2019 5:24:07 GMT -8
It's interesting that those who like or support Trump refer to his glaring human deficiencies as style, persona and unpolished. Those perhaps less enamored with him refer to them as lacking character, integrity, honesty and maturity. It's not style or lack of polish that makes a man repeatedly cheat on his wife or lie every time he opens his mouth. I’m with Bick. I don’t care about his style or his lack of polish. It would be great if he did not lie or cheat on his wife (for which I’ve not yet seen evidence, but that’s not really important at the moment). as I’ve said many times, I do not like the man as a man. I like what he is doing as president, and particularly how he is able to accomplish so much despite the torrent of hate and obstruction that is thrown at him, daily. i would have way preferred someone like Ted Cruz had gotten the job, but we didn’t have that option. We had to choose between someone we don’t like, and a murdering hedonist. At least Trump isn’t a murderer. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jul 8, 2019 7:47:35 GMT -8
It would be great if he did not lie or cheat on his wife (for which I’ve not yet seen evidence) We had to choose between someone we don’t like, and a murdering hedonist. At least Trump isn’t a murderer. So you're not sure whether or not Trump cheats because you've seen no evidence (I guess you must have missed the monetary payoffs), but you're convinced Hillary is a murderer, also with no evidence. That's certainly an interesting revelation. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Jul 8, 2019 8:53:50 GMT -8
It would be great if he did not lie or cheat on his wife (for which I’ve not yet seen evidence) We had to choose between someone we don’t like, and a murdering hedonist. At least Trump isn’t a murderer. So you're not sure whether or not Trump cheats because you've seen no evidence (I guess you must have missed the monetary payoffs), but you're convinced Hillary is a murderer, also with no evidence. That's certainly an interesting revelation. You altered my post in your quote. what I said is, “...for which I’ve not seen evidence but that is not important...” i didn’t want to race down this rabbit hole of whether or not Trump is a philanderer. What I said was, I don’t like him as a man. But I do appreciate what he is doing as President. |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Jul 8, 2019 9:17:27 GMT -8
Trump highlighted this early on his campaign ("stupid deals", "we don't win anymore") and IMHO this is one of the biggest reasons the entire D.C. establishment (in BOTH parties) has been so hostile to Trump: through a simple common-sense approach he has actually made some headway into problems that the experts tell us are too "complicated" or "complex" to be addressed. (e.g. immigration, trade w/ China, manufacturing jobs, North Korea, etc.)
No, they're not.
The political professionals have no incentive to fix problems because they would then be out of a job. Their job security (and all the lucrative benefits that go along with their positions) depends on perpetuating grievances and issues as a work in progress that only THEY have the expertise to address. Except that they never get fixed--and when they don't the experts say we "haven't done enough yet" so let's throw good money and effort after bad. It's a perfect feedback loop and Trump's "sin" is upsetting the entire racket and making them all look expendable.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Jul 8, 2019 9:58:09 GMT -8
It would be great if he did not lie or cheat on his wife (for which I’ve not yet seen evidence) We had to choose between someone we don’t like, and a murdering hedonist. At least Trump isn’t a murderer. So you're not sure whether or not Trump cheats because you've seen no evidence (I guess you must have missed the monetary payoffs), but you're convinced Hillary is a murderer, also with no evidence. That's certainly an interesting revelation. I'll stipulate he cheated on his current wife with the porn star some 10-15 years ago. I haven't heard, but wouldn't be surprised if he's had affairs since. But let's face it, that's not an ordinary guy, or gal, to begin with. Rich celebrity guy who made no bones about being attracted to women, and vice versa, since the get go. She wasn't exactly pure as the driven snow either. Put it this way, I'm not sure how much respect I'd give my wife or girlfriend who exposed herself for all to see prior to our getting together either. And I also don't know how I'd handle a bunch of unscrupulous hot women throwing themselves at me. In other words, I have a hard time judging a guy whose moccasins I haven't walked in. And for what it's worth, I'm not in the "Hillary is a murderer" camp. I assume if there was any evidence of this, there are enough motivated people who would've exposed it by now. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Jul 8, 2019 10:09:21 GMT -8
First of all, you guys are dancing around the issue and making excuses for the guy. As religious as some here profess to be, I'm a little surprised that his philandering ways are so easily dismissed. And Bick, you are walking in his shoes. I assume you're married, and that demands that you not cheat. It's just that some of us have the character and self-discipline to say no to temptation while others cave in at the slightest chance.
And I noticed neither of you responded to the claim that Hillary is a "murdering hedonist". There is certainly more evidence that Trump is a philandering jerk than that Hillary is a homicidal bitch.
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