Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 2, 2019 9:25:13 GMT -8
I think if everyone, left and right alike, were to take a step back from this case and look at the particulars, they would see how ludicrous this is. Let's pretend for a moment that the president isn't Donald Trump, but John Doe. He's an average president with average personal behavior, who neither particularly inspires nor offends anyone in the country. If he were to murder someone, or try to enlist the military to install a dictatorship, or sold drugs to children so he could sell them as sex slaves, or gave nukes to ISIS in trying to destroy Israel, we would all agree he was worthy of impeachment. But if John Doe, in a room full of witnesses, said to a foreign head of state, "I'd like you to do me a favor", we wouldn't give it a second thought. This entire circus is not about guilt or innocence or impeachable offenses, rather it's about the president being Donald Trump rather than John Doe. I'm completely on board with this. Do you feel the same way about the Clinton impeachment?
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Nov 2, 2019 9:50:13 GMT -8
I think if everyone, left and right alike, were to take a step back from this case and look at the particulars, they would see how ludicrous this is. Let's pretend for a moment that the president isn't Donald Trump, but John Doe. He's an average president with average personal behavior, who neither particularly inspires nor offends anyone in the country. If he were to murder someone, or try to enlist the military to install a dictatorship, or sold drugs to children so he could sell them as sex slaves, or gave nukes to ISIS in trying to destroy Israel, we would all agree he was worthy of impeachment. But if John Doe, in a room full of witnesses, said to a foreign head of state, "I'd like you to do me a favor", we wouldn't give it a second thought. This entire circus is not about guilt or innocence or impeachable offenses, rather it's about the president being Donald Trump rather than John Doe. I'm completely on board with this. Do you feel the same way about the Clinton impeachment?Only slightly. The difference is that Clinton lied under oath in sworn depositions about his relationship with Lewinsky, and then carried out very specific obstruction of justice actions in order to deflect evidence and testimony. So while the initial affair with Lewinsky might have been something to overlook, his subsequent commission of several felonies were absolutely impeachable.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Nov 2, 2019 10:01:17 GMT -8
As a libertine minded guy, what appeared (cheating on one's spouse) as a personal act (well maybe as it did happen in the oval office, the publics house) is certainly not impeachable. However once the President stood before the people, on national television and wagged that finger in our faces with an outright lie.... well he got what he deserved.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Nov 2, 2019 11:54:57 GMT -8
You are correct, but I would bet that a majority of democratic voters don't know that or don't care. They either incorrectly believe that impeaching Trump means Hillary becomes President ("because after all, bro, she won the popular vote, man") or it somehow validates Hillary's claims that the election was stolen from her. Those pushing for impeachment are not using reason, they are lashing out emotionally.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Nov 2, 2019 11:58:20 GMT -8
With Clinton, the issue with the affair is that it was with an intern, which falls under the definition of sexual harassment. Any CEO of any company who did the same thing, have an affair with someone with whom they hold power over, would have been fired.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 2, 2019 13:31:16 GMT -8
What stands out most to me in the article below, is this excerpt below from a couple researchers referencing Hamilton's Federalist 65. To paraphrase, the Founders believed that unless conduct would seriously harm the public or compromise the ability to continue, elections would be what ensured accountability of government officials. I completely agree with this assessment, and strongly believe that neither Clinton nor Trump's actions should qualify as impeachable offenses. What the Founders thought about impeachment and the President
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Nov 2, 2019 16:04:30 GMT -8
Democrats have been trying to impeach the President since he was sworn in. The voters will punish them in 2020.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 2, 2019 16:14:42 GMT -8
Each of the past 6 presidents have had resolutions of impeachment brought against them by their opposing party. Am I really the only one here that's calling BS on this?
Richard M. Nixon (Republican) Main articles: Impeachment process of Richard Nixon, Watergate scandal, and US v. Nixon
President Richard Nixon leaving the White House on Marine One shortly before his resignation became effective, August 9, 1974[10] On October 30, 1973, the House Judiciary Committee began consideration of the possible impeachment of Richard Nixon.[11] The initial straight party-line votes by a 21–17 margin that established an impeachment inquiry were focused around how extensive the subpoena powers Rodino would have would be.[12]
After a three-month-long investigation, and with public pressure to impeach the president growing, the House passed a resolution, H.Res. 803, on February 6, 1974, that gave the Judiciary Committee authority to actually investigate charges against the President.[13][14] The hearings lasted until the summer when, after much wrangling, the Judiciary Committee voted three articles of impeachment to the floor of the House, the furthest an impeachment proceeding had progressed in over a century.
With the release of new tapes — after the administration lost the case of US v. Nixon — and with impeachment and removal by the Senate all but certain,[15] on August 9, 1974, Nixon became the first president to resign.
Ronald Reagan (Republican) Main articles: Iran-Contra affair, Reagan administration scandals, and Nicaragua v. United States On March 6, 1987, Representative Henry B. Gonzalez introduced articles of impeachment against President Ronald Reagan regarding the Iran Contra affair, leading to the joint hearings that dominated the summer. A special prosecutor was appointed.
George H. W. Bush (Republican) On January 16, 1991, Congressman Henry B. Gonzalez introduced H. Res. 34 to impeach President George H. W. Bush for starting the Gulf War. The resolution was referred to the Judiciary Committee, where it was struck down.[16] Gonzalez tried again with H. Res. 86 on February 21. Both bills were referred to the Subcommittee on Economic and Commercial Law on March 18, 1992, where the efforts also failed.
Bill Clinton (Democrat) Main article: Impeachment of Bill Clinton
Bill Clinton official portrait On November 5, 1997, Representative Bob Barr introduced a resolution, H. Res. 304, directing the House Judiciary Committee to inquire into impeachment proceedings[17]—months before the Monica Lewinsky scandal came to light. Foremost among the concerns Barr cited at the time was alleged obstruction of Justice Department investigations into Clinton campaign fundraising from foreign sources, chiefly the People's Republic of China.[18] The resolution was referred to the Rules Committee for further action,[19] which tabled the resolution.
Later, Clinton was impeached and acquitted over charges relating to the Lewinsky scandal.
George W. Bush (Republican) Main article: Efforts to impeach George W. Bush Due to the Wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, President George W. Bush and other officials were targets of impeachment efforts. None of these efforts advanced past the hearing stage.
Barack Obama (Democrat) Main article: Efforts to impeach Barack Obama In March 2012, Representative Walter B. Jones introduced H. Con. Res. 107, calling for Congress to hold the sentiment that certain actions of President Barack Obama be considered as impeachable offenses, including the CIA's drone program in Afghanistan and Pakistan.[20] The resolution died in the House Judiciary Committee.
On December 3, 2013, the House Judiciary Committee held a hearing on whether or not to impeach the president. At the hearing, there were views among Republicans that the president had not done his duty and that he abused his executive power.[21][22]
Donald Trump (Republican) Main articles: Efforts to impeach Donald Trump and Impeachment inquiry against Donald Trump Further information: Timeline of investigations into Trump and Russia (2019)
Vladimir Putin and Trump at the G20 Hamburg summit Within weeks of taking office, members of Congress declared that President Trump may have committed impeachable offenses in relation with Executive Order 13769.[23] On July 12, 2017, Representative Al Green (D) and Representative Brad Sherman (D) introduced H. Res. 438, exhibiting one article of impeachment. This and later motions were eventually tabled by a large majority[24][25][26] or died in committee.
On September 24, 2019, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi announced an impeachment inquiry into President Trump based on allegations laid out in a whistleblower report. A resolution enacting a rules package to govern the investigation was passed on 31 October by a vote of 232-196 in which all Republicans and two Democrats voted against the resolution.[27]
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Nov 2, 2019 16:58:41 GMT -8
Any CEO of any company who did the same thing, have an affair with someone with whom they hold power over, would have been fired. Except in Hollywood.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Nov 2, 2019 18:30:31 GMT -8
How did Jimmy Carter dodge the impeachment bullet?
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Nov 2, 2019 18:39:58 GMT -8
Might've been the most genteel POTUS of all time. So much so, even Iranian students didn't take him seriously.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Nov 2, 2019 18:48:16 GMT -8
How did Jimmy Carter dodge the impeachment bullet? The Republicans felt sorry for Carter after that killer bunny went after him.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 3, 2019 4:18:16 GMT -8
Interesting that you don't think trump should be treated the same way...he stood on that airplane and told the American people he had no knowledge of the payoff to the porn star. Not a lie?
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 3, 2019 4:19:34 GMT -8
Tell that to the victim-in-chief who claims that no president has ever been treated as badly as him.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 3, 2019 4:21:09 GMT -8
I think you underestimate the intelligence of the average Democratic voter.
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