Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Oct 31, 2019 5:03:40 GMT -8
If Dershowitz is correct that Congress will have to overcome the fact that President Trump actually delivered the requested weapons to Ukraine without any of the actions by Ukraine’s government that he purportedly sought, and he did not carry through the act for which he is being charged, this latest effort to remove trump may once again prove to be a big nothing burger.
I'm in agreement with the author here that the larger, and significantly much larger issue is if the left Is successful in removing trump, the consequences of weaponizing the impeachment process for purely political power means will continue to damage our country...much as it did during Clinton's admin.
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
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Post by MDDad on Oct 31, 2019 7:43:14 GMT -8
There may also be a large number of people (a few million?) who didn't vote in 2016 but will come out of the woodwork to vote for Trump if Democrats try to nullify the 2016 election through impeachment. How stupid does a political party have to be to try to nullify an election whose results only have a year to go? |
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 31, 2019 7:51:29 GMT -8
About as stupid as you have to be to believe this is about "nullifying" an election?
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Oct 31, 2019 8:25:16 GMT -8
There may also be a large number of people (a few million?) who didn't vote in 2016 but will come out of the woodwork to vote for Trump if Democrats try to nullify the 2016 election through impeachment. How stupid does a political party have to be to try to nullify an election whose results only have a year to go? I do not believe “impeachment” is their goal. they have changed the rules of the House so they can keep the focus on what they hope their lemmings believe are Trumps misdeeds. They don’t want to impeach him because it won’t make it through the senate (well, AND they don’t have enough time) and charging him, but failing to remove him, will only make him stronger. i think it is obvious they just don’t want him re-elected. |
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Nov 1, 2019 11:17:24 GMT -8
About as stupid as you have to be to believe this is about "nullifying" an election? That is a disingenuous answer. You are fully aware that many Dems have been clamoring for impeachment since BEFORE Trump even took office. They knew the result they wanted, they have been trying to find something to get that result. They have spent the last 3 years trying to nullify the 2016 election, attempting to fit various square pegs of accusations into the round hole of impeachment. |
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Nov 1, 2019 14:14:48 GMT -8
Good of Mr. Graham to decide the case before he's heard any of the evidence. Very impartial on his part. Look in the mirror, buddy. Same goes for Joe Biden, who has already publicly declared that Trump should be impeached. He's not even in the government anymore and, again, has no more knowledge of Trump's motives or words than you or I. If he was still in the Senate, he'd have to recuse himself for pre-judging the case; if this were a civil or criminal court he would be dismissed from the jury for violating his oath. And THIS IS THE GUY--who is also a fact witness in anything related to Ukraine--who wants people to make him the Chief Executive of the Nation? Please..... |
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Nov 1, 2019 14:23:29 GMT -8
This from Fox analyst Judge Napolitano seems to have teeth "That is a mouthful of facts to swallow in one bite, but the legal implications are straightforward and profound. Whether one agrees with federal law or not, it is a crime to solicit assistance for a federal campaign from a foreign government. As well, the crime of bribery consists of a government official refraining from performing a legal duty until a thing of value is delivered to him." www.foxnews.com/opinion/judge-andrew-napolitano-hiding-plain-sightExcept that the teeth are missing in Napolitano's analysis, since neither of these things happened in the case of Trump and Ukraine. Napolitano has no more insight to this case than your or I, and also is a well-known Trump opponent. The guy was spurned for a judgeship by Trump and is now trying to save face. Rep. John Ratcliffe (R-TX), however, is one of the few people who has sat in on all the closed-door testimony thus far. His take: “At the end of the day, the truth will defend itself.” No crime or impeachable offense. The President did nothing (read the TRANSCRIPT) illegal, unethical, or inappropriate in this case. Democrats can impeach in the House if they want, but all their machinations will then be revealed in the Senate. At the end of the day, Trump will not be removed from office and will likely win by an even greater margin in 2020. |
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duke
Statesman
Posts: 681
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Post by duke on Nov 1, 2019 14:46:54 GMT -8
The Judge is still pissed that he wasn't nominated for the SCOTUS.
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
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Post by MDDad on Nov 1, 2019 14:57:49 GMT -8
I think if everyone, left and right alike, were to take a step back from this case and look at the particulars, they would see how ludicrous this is. Let's pretend for a moment that the president isn't Donald Trump, but John Doe. He's an average president with average personal behavior, who neither particularly inspires nor offends anyone in the country. If he were to murder someone, or try to enlist the military to install a dictatorship, or sold drugs to children so he could sell them as sex slaves, or gave nukes to ISIS in trying to destroy Israel, we would all agree he was worthy of impeachment. But if John Doe, in a room full of witnesses, said to a foreign head of state, "I'd like you to do me a favor", we wouldn't give it a second thought. This entire circus is not about guilt or innocence or impeachable offenses, rather it's about the president being Donald Trump rather than John Doe.
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Nov 1, 2019 22:25:42 GMT -8
This entire Trump-Ukraine quid pro quo accusation is nothing more than a baseless and debunked conspiracy theory.
If liberal partisans can blithely assert this about documented Democrat wrongdoing then it's good enough for me when it comes to slanders directed at Trump. End of story.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 2, 2019 2:00:12 GMT -8
No, it's a completely honest answer. Claims that the democrats are trying to "nullify" the election by impeaching trump are just silly. If trump is removed it will leave Pence in office...that doesn't nullify the election.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 2, 2019 2:04:02 GMT -8
Ok...there I am. Now what?
As you accurately point out Mr. Biden doesn't have to vote on this impeachment...so there's no conflict of interest there but Mr. Graham does...so how is that the same?
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 2, 2019 2:06:18 GMT -8
Any idea why he waited three years to put the knife in?
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 2, 2019 2:10:01 GMT -8
Your ridiculous pronouncements have no basis in law or reality. It's funny how as the evidence mounts your denials get more silly.
BTW, why do you keep calling this a "conspiracy theory"? No one has alleged any kind of conspiracy of which I'm aware.
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Post by vilepagan on Nov 2, 2019 2:14:42 GMT -8
You seem to be trying to say something here but I'm not sure what it was.
Documented Democrat wrongdoing? What wrongdoing and what documents are you referring to?
BTW, when you see something written here that's unflattering to trump that would be "libelous" not "slanderous"...because it's written, not spoken. Just saying.
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