Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
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Post by Luca on Sept 16, 2020 14:20:10 GMT -8
Do you believe that?
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Sept 16, 2020 15:57:15 GMT -8
You’re not asking me, and I’m not even Catholic... but, no, I do not accept that. I even know Christians who are (gasp) pro-Abortion. I know Christians (duhn duhn DUUUHHHNNNN) whomare homosexual. I don’t get how they reconcile that, but it’s not for me to factor. They answer to God and not to me. Here’s the deal with sin: Christians sin. Gid will work kin a believers life to bring them out of that predilection to sin, but we are never completely free from it. So, if I am a believer, I am spiritually aware of my sin, even as God works to keep me from it and Satan works to drag me back into it. God doesn’t choose political parties. |
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Sept 16, 2020 19:21:20 GMT -8
You’re not asking me, and I’m not even Catholic... but, no, I do not accept that. I even know Christians who are (gasp) pro-Abortion. I know Christians (duhn duhn DUUUHHHNNNN) whomare homosexual. I don’t get how they reconcile that, but it’s not for me to factor. They answer to God and not to me. Here’s the deal with sin: Christians sin. Gid will work kin a believers life to bring them out of that predilection to sin, but we are never completely free from it. So, if I am a believer, I am spiritually aware of my sin, even as God works to keep me from it and Satan works to drag me back into it. God doesn’t choose political parties. I'm not going to go so far as to say that a Catholic cannot be a Democrat, as that goes beyond the sphere of the Church's authority. As davidsf rightly pointed out, God does not choose political parties--nor does the Catholic Church endorse parties or candidates. What is absolutely clear and undeniable, however, is that support for and promotion of abortion is completely incompatible with Catholic moral teaching. Reach your own conclusions. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Sept 16, 2020 19:23:54 GMT -8
For the most part...no. But I do agree that you can't be Catholic & be pro-abortion or even pro-choice. Biden and Pelosi are the best examples. Even if they oppose abortion personally, advocating for, or enabling abortions, (or funding for abortions), through legislation, is nothing short of aiding and abetting murder IMHO. As Dems in favor of "abortion rights," they can not be, and are not Catholics, in a state of grace. |
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Sept 16, 2020 20:45:34 GMT -8
I agree with the Prof, and look at it this way.
If you proclaim to be Catholic, then you aren't a Democrat. You may vote for many Democratic candidates and like some of the Democratic platforms, but being Catholic means you are anti-abortion and that ain't Democrat.
If you proclaim to be Democrat, then you aren't Catholic. You may go to church, take communion, go to confession, but being Democrat means you are pro-abortion and that ain't Catholic.
As an aside, I am registered as a Republican, but would never call myself a Republican. I have no loyalty to any political party, I chose to register Republican in order to vote in their primaries.
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Sept 17, 2020 7:40:28 GMT -8
I posed this question to my other friends on social media and got a quote from Tim Keller, PhD/theologian/author, who tweeted (coincidentally, yesterday) from his upcoming book:
I agree with him.
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tarmac
Senior Statesman
Posts: 859
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Post by tarmac on Sept 17, 2020 8:09:23 GMT -8
IMO. When the swamp is drained we will see the leadership of the Catholic Church with all the other deep state monsters in the hole.
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Sept 17, 2020 8:55:20 GMT -8
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, no matter the organization.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Sept 17, 2020 13:57:47 GMT -8
IMO. When the swamp is drained we will see the leadership of the Catholic Church with all the other deep state monsters in the hole. I hope it's not as bad as your video portrays it to be. Thank God for Father Altman, Bishop Stika, and Bishop Strickland. "No Catholic can responsibly take a 'pro-choice' stand when the 'choice' involves the taking of innocent human life." - National Council of Catholic Bishops, Fall 1989 conference resolution of November 8, 1989. |
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Post by vilepagan on Sept 18, 2020 3:22:20 GMT -8
What? What is it you are rolling on the floor about? You assume that a Catholic is obliged to vote for another Catholic? No Luca...I assume that Joe Biden has more morality in his little finger than trump ever had...I assume trump is just pandering to the religious for political gain...I assume trump has NONE of your religious values. That's why I berate the Catholics for their political endorsement...they've abandoned their faith for perceived political gain. Pitiful and pathetic. Why would I assume that? For Christ's sake just open your eyes and your ears. |
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Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,900
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Post by Bick on Sept 18, 2020 7:26:55 GMT -8
I agree with the Prof, and look at it this way. If you proclaim to be Catholic, then you aren't a Democrat. You may vote for many Democratic candidates and like some of the Democratic platforms, but being Catholic means you are anti-abortion and that ain't Democrat. If you proclaim to be Democrat, then you aren't Catholic. You may go to church, take communion, go to confession, but being Democrat means you are pro-abortion and that ain't Catholic. As an aside, I am registered as a Republican, but would never call myself a Republican. I have no loyalty to any political party, I chose to register Republican in order to vote in their primaries. I don't think primarily identifying with any group necessarily means you support all its tenets. In fact, I believe very few people actually do believe them all. What seems to becoming mainstream thinking is to pigeon hole people as supporters of what might be considered the worst aspect of that group's affiliation. I think that's called "politics" today. |
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Sept 18, 2020 8:23:11 GMT -8
I agree with the Prof, and look at it this way. If you proclaim to be Catholic, then you aren't a Democrat. You may vote for many Democratic candidates and like some of the Democratic platforms, but being Catholic means you are anti-abortion and that ain't Democrat. If you proclaim to be Democrat, then you aren't Catholic. You may go to church, take communion, go to confession, but being Democrat means you are pro-abortion and that ain't Catholic. As an aside, I am registered as a Republican, but would never call myself a Republican. I have no loyalty to any political party, I chose to register Republican in order to vote in their primaries. I don't think primarily identifying with any group necessarily means you support all its tenets. In fact, I believe very few people actually do believe them all. What seems to becoming mainstream thinking is to pigeon hole people as supporters of what might be considered the worst aspect of that group's affiliation. I think that's called "politics" today. I agree with you when the group in question is something you belong to not by choice. If you are Hispanic, if you are gay, if you are a man, then you do not necessarily support the tenets that those groups are known for. If you are that combination, then you are most likely Ricky Martin. But if you choose to join a group, be it the Catholic Church or the Republican party and you want to be known as Catholic or Republican, you are deluding yourself if you are not following all of the tenets of that organization. The accurate description would be along the lines that you attend a Catholic Church as opposed to being Catholic or that you vote Republican as opposed to being a Republican. |
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Sept 18, 2020 8:32:17 GMT -8
What? What is it you are rolling on the floor about? You assume that a Catholic is obliged to vote for another Catholic? ...That's why I berate the Catholics for their political endorsement...they've abandoned their faith for perceived political gain. Your line of thought is illogical, for endorsing a candidate is not the same as identifying or agreeing with everything that candidate stands for. Often, it is the choice between a lesser of two evils. Following your reasoning, Catholics should not vote for either Biden or Trump. Biden supports abortion and Trump had extramarital affairs, so neither follows Catholic doctrine. There is a difference between casting a vote for or endorsing a candidate and claiming to be part of that candidates platform. Lastly, based on your ignorance of Catholicism and its sacraments, you really should avoid making declarations about Catholics abandoning their faith. |
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Post by vilepagan on Sept 18, 2020 12:56:41 GMT -8
...That's why I berate the Catholics for their political endorsement...they've abandoned their faith for perceived political gain. Biden supports abortion and Trump had extramarital affairs, so neither follows Catholic doctrine. Biden does not support abortion, he supports following the law. Which candidate do you suppose has paid for abortions? |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Sept 18, 2020 14:48:40 GMT -8
Biden supports abortion and Trump had extramarital affairs, so neither follows Catholic doctrine. Biden does not support abortion, he supports following the law. Which candidate do you suppose has paid for abortions? No, he supports abortion by wanting the government to pay for it, since he has called for ending the Hyde amendment, and wants to make sure women have access to abortions. He's aiding and abetting abortions = murder. |
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