duke
Statesman
Posts: 681
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Post by duke on Oct 29, 2019 16:07:56 GMT -8
www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/extremely-disturbing-top-dems-alarmed-over-vindmans-testimony-on-trump-ukraine-call/ar-AAJy0Gu?ocid=spartandhpTop Democrats at the deposition of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman, the top Ukraine expert on the National Security Council, said his testimony Tuesday was "extremely disturbing" and praised him for appearing despite attacks from the White House. Acting House Oversight Chairwoman Carolyn Maloney, D-N.Y, told NBC News she found Vindman's prepared remarks "extremely, extremely, extremely disturbing," as she left the deposition Tuesday morning. Maloney refused to answer any other questions about Vindman's testimony. I just don't get it. President Trump released the transcript which showed what he said, for all to be able to read, But this guy who claims he was listening in, comes in and testifies with his own take?
So Schiff wants us to believe what his latest leaker says, but not what you can read? What a bunch of fools.
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Luca
Master Statesman
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Post by Luca on Oct 29, 2019 16:34:35 GMT -8
I’m a little confused here. I’ve read what is said to be the transcript of the conversation. I don’t need somebody else’s “take“ on it If I can read the damned thing for myself. Are Trump opponents claiming that the transcript is not accurate, and if so in what way is it inaccurate? Has anybody introduced the putative missing portions?
This is juvenile. I keep coming back to George Bush’s observation that you have to ignore about 90% of what is said in Washington because it’s simply “noise“, with no import. Wake me up when there is some honest to God evidence...............Luca
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duke
Statesman
Posts: 681
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Post by duke on Oct 29, 2019 16:48:07 GMT -8
Will this leaker return to the workplace tomorrow and still have a job? Why wouldn't he be fired for making stuff up if it's different than what's in the released transcript. The old line about he's serving at the pleasure of The President would certainly come into play if it was up to me and had some leaker judging the President on a private phone call with a foreign leader. The Left sucks more and is getting bolder in their attempted take down of an elected President every day.
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 29, 2019 17:23:54 GMT -8
Will this leaker return to the workplace tomorrow and still have a job? That is a great question and brings to mind an incident from 25 years ago that is a great illustration of the difference between government & private business. Back in the early 90's , a woman who worked in our accounting office made an accusation that I had been stalking her and making harassing phone calls. In essence, she was a "whistle blower", she had something negative about someone in the organization and made a claim about it. The problem with her accusation was it was false and thank God, her claim that I had spent the weekend parked outside her house and knocking on her door repeatedly was shown to be false because I was in Vegas at the time and could prove it. While I have no doubt she believed her accusation, she was promptly fired by the head of the accounting department. Compare this to government "whistle-blowers" who make false claims for partisan purposes. The either keep their job or get paid leave, even when their claims are shown to be false. Why not take a shot at someone else, there are no repercussions? It may lead to a more cushy job in some department headed by another partisan who appreciates your creativity.
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Oct 29, 2019 17:52:32 GMT -8
Just another guy who adds absolutely ZERO to this Nothingburger story. Did the media report that Vindman is a Ukrainian-born immigrant (who might just have a particular view of and attachment to Ukraine that it at odds with Donald Trump--you know, the constitutionally designated director of U.S. foreign policy)? Or that Bill Taylor (the flavor of the week last week) has ties to Hunter Biden? Whoops.
And Vindman has never even spoken to Donald Trump but was "concerned" by how he thought the President (his boss) was dealing with Ukraine. And that's relevant because.....?
Hey Alexander Vindman: 63 million voted for the foreign policies Trump campaigned on. No one voted to validate your feelings.
Finally, reminder #117: there is NO CRIME.
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RSM789
Eminence Grise
Posts: 2,286
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 29, 2019 22:48:32 GMT -8
Mr. Kelly, I believe the phrase is "squeeze blood out of a turnip", not an onion.
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 30, 2019 2:38:46 GMT -8
I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but you did NOT read a verbatim transcript of the phone call. You read a summary. The word-for-word transcript of the phone call has yet to be released. Don't believe me? ALEXANDER VINDMAN WILL BE A 'STAR WITNESS' FOR UKRAINE IMPEACHMENT PROBE, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY SAYSMimi Rocah, who served as a prosecutor in the Southern District of New York, appeared on MSNBC Monday to give her insights on Vindman's scheduled appearance. She told host Brian Williams that Vindman "is the kind of witness that prosecutors dream about."
Vindman was on the now-infamous phone call between Trump and Zelenskiy. The president is accused of using the conversation to propose a quid pro quo of military aid in exchange for a Ukrainian investigation into allegations of corruption against 2020 rival Joe Biden and his son Hunter, linked to Ukraine's Burisma natural gas company.
A memo detailing parts of the call was released by the White House last month, prompting House Democrats to launch an impeachment investigation into the president. The full transcript of the call has still not been released. "We need to know everything surrounding the call," Rocah suggested.www.newsweek.com/star-witness-impeachment-alexander-vindman-mimi-rocah-1468304
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 30, 2019 2:52:42 GMT -8
Reminder #118: "High Crimes" as mentioned in the Constitution are not necessarily "crimes" as defined by statute. The Constitution doesn't say what "high crimes and misdemeanors" means exactly but scholars and the courts have weighed in over the years. From the Wikipedia: The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct by officials, such as dishonesty, negligence, perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of public funds or assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order, chronic intoxication, or tax evasion. Offenses by officials also include ordinary crimes, but perhaps with different standards of proof and punishment than for non-officials, on the grounds that more is expected of officials by their oaths of office. Indeed the offense may not even be a breach of criminal statute. See Harvard Law Review "The majority view is that a president can legally be impeached for 'intentional, evil deeds' that 'drastically subvert the Constitution and involve an unforgivable abuse of the presidency' — even if those deeds didn’t violate any criminal laws."en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_crimes_and_misdemeanorsBut hey, maybe no one will notice so keep trying that legally absurd defense.
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,815
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Post by MDDad on Oct 30, 2019 7:57:18 GMT -8
"The charge of high crimes and misdemeanors covers allegations of misconduct by officials, such as dishonesty, negligence, perjury of oath, abuse of authority, bribery, intimidation, misuse of public funds or assets, failure to supervise, dereliction of duty, unbecoming conduct, refusal to obey a lawful order, chronic intoxication, or tax evasion. Offenses by officials also include ordinary crimes, but perhaps with different standards of proof and punishment than for non-officials, on the grounds that more is expected of officials by their oaths of office. Indeed the offense may not even be a breach of criminal statute. See Harvard Law Review "The majority view is that a president can legally be impeached for 'intentional, evil deeds' that 'drastically subvert the Constitution and involve an unforgivable abuse of the presidency' — even if those deeds didn’t violate any criminal laws."
If that is indeed the current de facto interpretation of what "high crimes and misdemeanors" means, then every president in American history should have been impeached.
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Oct 30, 2019 8:10:39 GMT -8
Trump's real "high crime" was getting elected President, thus humiliating all the professional politicians, pundits, and campaign consultants who said he had a "no chance" of winning. And they haven't stopped crying since November 8, 2016.
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 30, 2019 8:38:21 GMT -8
What Lt.Col. Vindman's testimony actually was... Vindman says White House omitted Trump's reference to Biden tapes in transcript of Zelensky callThe National Security Council's top Ukraine expert told House impeachment investigators on Tuesday that he tried to make changes to the White House's rough transcript of the July phone call between President Donald Trump and Ukraine's President, including that Trump mentioned tapes of former Vice President Joe Biden, according to a source familiar with the matter.
Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman testified that one example of his attempts to change the transcript was to include Trump telling Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky there were tapes of Biden, which The New York Times reported occurred where there's an ellipsis in the transcript that was released. The change was not made. The assertion that some portion of the conversation was replaced by an ellipsis contradicts the White House's statement in September that the ellipses in the transcript did not represent missing words or phrases. It also contradicts the President who has insisted the transcript the White House released was an exact depiction of the call, even though the memo itself describes it as rough.www.cnn.com/2019/10/30/politics/alexander-vindman-testimony-white-house-transcript/index.htmlI say let's have a look at an actual verbatim transcript of the call.
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Post by vilepagan on Oct 30, 2019 8:40:30 GMT -8
Is that supposed to be some sort of excuse for trump's outrageous behavior?
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,815
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Post by MDDad on Oct 30, 2019 9:17:01 GMT -8
No, that is supposed to be some statement of fact from the interpretation you posted.
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duke
Statesman
Posts: 681
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Post by duke on Oct 30, 2019 9:34:14 GMT -8
VilePagan, we've listened to lies from the Left for the past 3 years about this President. They were talking about impeachment before he was even sworn in. The Russia collusion was all lies, perpetrated by the likes of Schiff and others. All PROVEN false. Why would we now believe Vindman is now here to tell us the truth, or his own version of the truth? Republicans tried to ask him if he had any contact with Schiff or any others on his committee before he came forward, and Schiff wouldn't allow the question. Gee, I wonder why. Do you need further proof that this is another setup and their latest attempt to find something to use to impeach and undue an election result the Left still can't get over.
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duke
Statesman
Posts: 681
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Post by duke on Oct 30, 2019 9:46:25 GMT -8
Which Spy/Leaker and new crisis will Schiff come up with tomorrow or the next day?
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