|
|
Post by Zebra on Nov 12, 2019 15:21:35 GMT -8
Couple questions on the catch/interception .. did the player survive contact with the ground and still have the ball in control and when was the action of the defender ripping the ball. To me it looks like the ball is in control when the player hits on his back, then the ball gets ripped during the half roll. I have a TD on this .. but that's just me and Lord knows I've been wrong before.
|
|
|
|
Post by ProfessorFate on Nov 12, 2019 16:29:08 GMT -8
Couple questions on the catch/interception .. did the player survive contact with the ground and still have the ball in control and when was the action of the defender ripping the ball. To me it looks like the ball is in control when the player hits on his back, then the ball gets ripped during the half roll. I have a TD on this .. but that's just me and Lord knows I've been wrong before. I'm confused then, because the guy on his back is the defender. If he had control, it'd be an INT. |
|
|
|
Post by Zebra on Nov 13, 2019 11:36:48 GMT -8
YIKES!! 1 week off and look what happens ... See, wrong again. You are correct Prof. LOL .. I didn't notice who started on Offense while I was scrubbing the video near the ball control point. White is Defense, he hits the ground with control, it doesn't look like simultaneous control..and as he rolls and completes the catch, the ball is ripped. My bad. Signal 7 {touchback}  |
|
Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,316
|
Post by Luca on Nov 13, 2019 22:23:23 GMT -8
I’d say it’s an int. It looks to me like the dB had possession in the instant he hit the ground, at which point the play is over whether the WR wrestles it back or not. I think it was a good call............Luca
|
|
|
|
Post by Zebra on Nov 19, 2019 8:19:30 GMT -8
I’d say it’s an int. It looks to me like the dB had possession in the instant he hit the ground, at which point the play is over whether the WR wrestles it back or not. I think it was a good call............Luca On all catches, there is an element of "surviving contact with the ground". If in a hypothetical, the defender catches the ball falls to his back and and loses possession without an additional force on the ball, that is not a catch. The ground cannot cause a fumble but it can cause an incomplete pass. IMO, i n this one, the ripping of the ball is a secondary force on the ball after he survives contact with the ground |
|
Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
|
Post by Credo on Nov 21, 2019 8:57:23 GMT -8
I’d say it’s an int. It looks to me like the dB had possession in the instant he hit the ground, at which point the play is over whether the WR wrestles it back or not. I think it was a good call............Luca On all catches, there is an element of "surviving contact with the ground". If in a hypothetical, the defender catches the ball falls to his back and and loses possession without an additional force on the ball, that is not a catch. The ground cannot cause a fumble but it can cause an incomplete pass. IMO, i n this one, the ripping of the ball is a secondary force on the ball after he survives contact with the groundZebra, I'm sure you can answer this question for me: At what point in the field is a pass interference not an automatic 1st down in HSFB? During the Servite-MV game, there was a PI and 4th-and-goal from the 1 or 2 yard line. Everyone in the stands (including the scoreboard) thought it was a 1st down, but apparently it was simply a repeat of 4th down. Servite was stopped on a run and then turned over the ball on downs--to the confusion of both sides. |
|
MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
|
Post by MDDad on Nov 21, 2019 9:24:15 GMT -8
I will defer to Zebra, but I believe in California, pass interference is never an automatic first down. It's 15 yards or half the distance to the goal line. If that places the ball beyond the first down marker, it's a first down, if it doesn't, it's not. If you have a fourth-and-goal, PI can't get you a first down because there is no first-down marker.
|
|
Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
|
Post by Credo on Nov 21, 2019 15:31:18 GMT -8
I will defer to Zebra, but I believe in California, pass interference is never an automatic first down. It's 15 yards or half the distance to the goal line. If that places the ball beyond the first down marker, it's a first down, if it doesn't, it's not. If you have a fourth-and-goal, PI can't get you a first down because there is no first-down marker. That makes sense, except that it provides little disincentive to mugging a receiver on pass defense when inside the 10 yard line on 3rd down (or in the case of our game, 4th-and-goal at the 2). |
|
MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,814
|
Post by MDDad on Nov 21, 2019 15:40:28 GMT -8
I think it does. First, even if you mug him, he might catch the ball. Second, if he doesn't, the offense is a yard closer to the endzone, making a run play more effective.
|
|
Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,900
|
Post by Bick on Nov 22, 2019 19:43:32 GMT -8
Here's another.
I say down at the 1
|
|
SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,376
|
Post by SK80 on Nov 22, 2019 22:51:14 GMT -8
Its not often you get to put this out there, but the ref crew at the CDM-Alemany game were great. They really let the guys play and stayed out of the way, wish I could have thanked them. Maybe Zebra knows some on the crew?
|
|
|
|
Post by ProfessorFate on Nov 23, 2019 2:45:04 GMT -8
Here's another. I say down at the 1 Another bang bang play. Was his knee was down before the fumble? And if in doubt, I might have called it that way anyway, since he fumbled the ball forward. (Probably only an NFL rule, but still...). After the second player picks it up, does his knee touch before the ball breaks the plane? |
|
Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,900
|
Post by Bick on Nov 23, 2019 5:37:51 GMT -8
I thought only the player who fumbled can advance it. If that's the rule, the ball should be placed at the 1
|
|
|
|
Post by Zebra on Nov 25, 2019 8:24:26 GMT -8
I will defer to Zebra, but I believe in California, pass interference is never an automatic first down. It's 15 yards or half the distance to the goal line. If that places the ball beyond the first down marker, it's a first down, if it doesn't, it's not. If you have a fourth-and-goal, PI can't get you a first down because there is no first-down marker. The rules on HS pass interference changed about 3 years ago. Offensive PI rules start when the ball is snapped and are no longer loss of down penalties. Its just 15 yards from the previous spot. Defensive PI rules start when the ball is released and no longer carries an automatic first down. Again, 15 yards from the previous spot. The only automatic first downs are awarded for the "roughing" penalties. Roughing the passer, center, kicker and/or holder. |
|
|
|
Post by Zebra on Nov 25, 2019 8:33:16 GMT -8
Here's another. I say down at the 1 Down at the one due to forward progress. Anything that happens after progress is moot. The ball is dead at the forward most spot. BUT in HS (except Texas) anyone anytime anywhere can pick up and advance a fumble. |
|
