SK80
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Post by SK80 on Aug 24, 2021 10:25:27 GMT -8
Wheres the link Zebra.....?
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Post by Zebra on Aug 26, 2021 7:11:28 GMT -8
Wheres the link Zebra.....? Click Zebra gets trucked in the post |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Oct 24, 2021 20:45:32 GMT -8
Zebra,
Please give your opinion of this play. TMac clearly lands out of bounds, but the DB who was inbounds, pushed him (almost carried him) so he would land out of bounds. It was ruled a TD. I believe it was the correct call. So does Sportswriter Martin Henderson as he indicates in this video tweet.
Here's a better view of the play including slow motion.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 26, 2021 8:41:30 GMT -8
I usually go with my gut, first impression, call on a play like that..., watching the game on TV mind you, I thought "OUT of BOUNDS". I understand the defender can cause a player to be PUSHED out of bounds unfairly but in this replay I stand behind my first call, TMAC was not only with his own momentum headed out of bounds he was WAY OUT of bounds, I just dont see enough force contact by the defender making the receiver UNABLE to stay in bounds.
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Oct 26, 2021 9:25:30 GMT -8
I usually go with my gut, first impression, call on a play like that..., watching the game on TV mind you, I thought "OUT of BOUNDS". I understand the defender can cause a player to be PUSHED out of bounds unfairly but in this replay I stand behind my first call, TMAC was not only with his own momentum headed out of bounds he was WAY OUT of bounds, I just dont see enough force contact by the defender making the receiver UNABLE to stay in bounds. I'm going to concede that was a bad call; from my angle in the stands I couldn't see where he landed. If anything, it makes up for the mugging that was put on him during the Spring game. Overall, I thought the officiating was pretty even; no team got a decisive advantage or disadvantage from the Zebras. |
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 26, 2021 9:32:10 GMT -8
Gotta live with them in HSF w/ NO REPLAY..... thats another way to look at this, if it were NCAA or NFL and there was REPLAY and you had to bet your house on would either officials in a booth employed by those two, NCAA or NFL over-rule/reverse that call.... pretty sure I would have my house and you might be trying to buy yours back!
Otherwise glad they muffed, was a win in the Football Pool covering the 11.5 point spread...!
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 26, 2021 10:36:15 GMT -8
I'm going to concede that was a bad call; from my angle in the stands I couldn't see where he landed. If anything, it makes up for the mugging that was put on him during the Spring game. I guess it's all a matter of perspective. T-Mac benefitted from eight P.I. calls in the game last spring, and six of them were questionable or bogus. If that's a mugging, where do I sign up to get mugged? Furthermore, if officials are granting phantom touchdowns when a player is clearly out of bounds as a make-up call for something that might have happened last season, we need new officials. Having watched the entire game twice in slow-motion, I beg to differ. Servite had 4 penalties for 51 yards, while Mater Dei had 15 for 135. That is not "pretty even". We counted numerous bad calls against Mater Dei and numerous missed calls against Servite. Jacob Manu had six clear late hits and two others that were questionable, and he was never flagged even once. If you can, please watch the game again. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 26, 2021 11:07:03 GMT -8
First time I saw it, I thought I was looking at TMac foot come down in the EZ.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 26, 2021 12:05:40 GMT -8
MDDad, surely there is a target on your back, being the best at this game in an impartial world calls would be just that, impartial. Yet in the real world, human nature, just maybe the benefit of the doubt might go against you being what you are, the best. I know from decades of watching my team get hammered often times for who we are and where we are from. Like we see here on our forum in politics, media, there is bias and it plays out in many an arena. As for that call for Servite, I could be totally wrong, but it feels like that ref wanted that touchdown to count... human nature maybe, unrealized impartiality? Not in that guys head at that moment, don't even know we he is. Again, with replay he very likely gets overruled for his mistake, lapse in judgement, impartiality, whatever it may be...
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 26, 2021 12:44:47 GMT -8
This is the first game this season when we've had the curse of seven officials instead of five. Whenever that has happened in the past, it has been a flagfest and a 3 1/2-hour game. I guess when you're one of seven, you have to get noticed for when the cut back to five comes the next week, and yellow flags are the best way to get noticed.
But just a couple examples: Josh Hunter was flagged for a facemask penalty when he clearly dragged the Servite player down by the sleeve of his jersey. The call came from behind the Servite player, and that official could not have seen what really happened. If you didn't see it, don't penalize. And when Servite played their three-wide alignment, with T-Mac behind two of his teammates for a quick bubble screen, there were at least two occasions when one of his two teammantes grabbed the Mater Dei defender by the jersey and threw him to the ground. No flag. T-Mac is one of the best wide receivers I've seen in the last 20 years, and he doesn't need that kind of help. I guess there's a reason why these guys aren't officiating in the NFL.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 26, 2021 13:43:37 GMT -8
MDDad, surely there is a target on your back, being the best at this game in an impartial world calls would be just that, impartial. Yet in the real world, human nature, just maybe the benefit of the doubt might go against you being what you are, the best. I know from decades of watching my team get hammered often times for who we are and where we are from. Like we see here on our forum in politics, media, there is bias and it plays out in many an arena. As for that call for Servite, I could be totally wrong, but it feels like that ref wanted that touchdown to count... human nature maybe, unrealized impartiality? Not in that guys head at that moment, don't even know we he is. Again, with replay he very likely gets overruled for his mistake, lapse in judgement, impartiality, whatever it may be... On a bang-bang play like that, it's easy to miss whose foot that was tapping the EZ. As I said, the first time I saw it, I thought that WAS TMac's foot in the EZ. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Oct 26, 2021 22:16:30 GMT -8
I still think it was the correct call, and the Ref was right there at the pylon, with a clear view of the sideline and the players. I await Zebra's take on this, but here is the defense I posted on another site, namely that TMac only landed out of bounds because he was pushed (and nearly carried) by the inbounds DB.
From the NFHS Football Rules Book, Section 5, Article 5:
ART. 5 . . . A forward pass, legal or illegal, is incomplete and the ball becomes dead when the pass touches the ground or goes out of bounds. It is also incomplete when a player in the air possesses the pass and alights so that his first contact with the ground or with anything other than a player or game official is on or outside a boundary...
Why do you suppose the exception in red above, is in there?
Look at the slow-motion replay. The receiver (TMac) is inbounds when he skies to make the catch. His first contact is not with the ground, but rather is with the DB who is inbounds. At that point, TMac is:
a) In possession of the ball,
b) is past the goal line, and
c) has made contact with the DB inbounds (or more accurately the inbounds DB has made contact with him)
At that point, the play is dead and that's a TD.
Notice also, in the video, that the Ref is in perfect position, right at the pylon, looking right down the sideline, with nothing, and no one blocking his view. He can clearly see who landed where, and his call was that the DB made contact inbounds, and the receiver only landed out of bounds because of the contact that occurred inbounds.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Oct 26, 2021 22:35:32 GMT -8
I usually go with my gut, first impression, call on a play like that..., watching the game on TV mind you, I thought "OUT of BOUNDS". I understand the defender can cause a player to be PUSHED out of bounds unfairly but in this replay I stand behind my first call, TMAC was not only with his own momentum headed out of bounds he was WAY OUT of bounds, I just dont see enough force contact by the defender making the receiver UNABLE to stay in bounds. He most definitely was NOT headed out of bounds. Look at how far he is from the sideline when he skies, nearly straight up. The slo-mo near the end of the second video shows that best. He clearly would have landed inbounds on his own momentum. I believe THAT is what the Ref saw. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 27, 2021 6:31:43 GMT -8
I usually go with my gut, first impression, call on a play like that..., watching the game on TV mind you, I thought "OUT of BOUNDS". I understand the defender can cause a player to be PUSHED out of bounds unfairly but in this replay I stand behind my first call, TMAC was not only with his own momentum headed out of bounds he was WAY OUT of bounds, I just dont see enough force contact by the defender making the receiver UNABLE to stay in bounds. He most definitely was NOT headed out of bounds. Look at how far he is from the sideline when he skies, nearly straight up. The slo-mo near the end of the second video shows that best. He clearly would have landed inbounds on his own momentum. I believe THAT is what the Ref saw. Two things: (1) Both players were going almost straight up for the ball, and their momentum carried them out of bounds. (2) Who cares, you got the call and still lost. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 27, 2021 7:31:20 GMT -8
I still think it was the correct call, and the Ref was right there at the pylon, with a clear view of the sideline and the players. I await Zebra's take on this, but here is the defense I posted on another site, namely that TMac only landed out of bounds because he was pushed (and nearly carried) by the inbounds DB. From the NFHS Football Rules Book, Section 5, Article 5:ART. 5 . . . A forward pass, legal or illegal, is incomplete and the ball becomes dead when the pass touches the ground or goes out of bounds. It is also incomplete when a player in the air possesses the pass and alights so that his first contact with the ground or with anything other than a player or game official is on or outside a boundary... Why do you suppose the exception in red above, is in there? Look at the slow-motion replay. The receiver (TMac) is inbounds when he skies to make the catch. His first contact is not with the ground, but rather is with the DB who is inbounds. At that point, TMac is: a) In possession of the ball, b) is past the goal line, and c) has made contact with the DB inbounds (or more accurately the inbounds DB has made contact with him) At that point, the play is dead and that's a TD. Notice also, in the video, that the Ref is in perfect position, right at the pylon, looking right down the sideline, with nothing, and no one blocking his view. He can clearly see who landed where, and his call was that the DB made contact inbounds, and the receiver only landed out of bounds because of the contact that occurred inbounds. As a former city of Lakewood youth sports 10-11 flag football official, I endorse this take. |
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