RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Sept 22, 2020 20:01:16 GMT -8
Regarding Patriots versus Seahawks, a close one, but I'll propose that Brady would have gotten the score that Newton didn't, so this will also go into the "Tom Brady is GOAT" pile.
After 2 weeks, score is RSM-1, MDDad-1, so nothing has been settled.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Sept 23, 2020 5:53:53 GMT -8
Regarding Patriots versus Seahawks, a close one, but I'll propose that Brady would have gotten the score that Newton didn't, so this will also go into the "Tom Brady is GOAT" pile. After 2 weeks, score is RSM-1, MDDad-1, so nothing has been settled. Not so fast. I think what Belichick and McDaniels have done with Newton so far is pretty darn miraculous. In fact, the more I'm considering this, the more I'm leaning towards shifting the importance of the coaching staff and supporting players in the GOAT discussion. I think somewhere in this thread you offered that Bradshaw was a special player. I think he would be the example of being elevated PRIMARILY because of the coaching / supporting cast. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Sept 23, 2020 21:05:06 GMT -8
I think somewhere in this thread you offered that Bradshaw was a special player. I think he would be the example of being elevated PRIMARILY because of the coaching / supporting cast. Based on just raw talent, there are plenty of other QB's who had more skills than Bradshaw. However, remember, this was during a time when the passing game was just beginning to open up and one of the most important characteristics you needed in a QB was the ability to not get hurt. You either needed to be big & tough like Bradshaw or agile like Tarkenton or Staubach to make it through the season at a time when the things the defensive players could do to you were downright vicious. He was the right kind of QB for his time, just like Montana was for his time & Brady was for his time. You put any of those three in a different era and their results change drastically. Bradshaw being special wasn't based on running up huge stats, but rather doing what was needed when it was needed to make his team win in big games. For example, everyone knows of Franco Harris's "Imaculate Reception", but if you go back and watch that play, the fact that Bradshaw even gets the pass off is amazing. Yes, it was an fortunate bounce, but most other QB's would have been sacked on that play, never giving Harris the chance to make that famous play. Things like that don't show up in the stat sheet, they just contribute to Super Bowl wins. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Sept 27, 2020 15:11:25 GMT -8
In the early game, the Patriots used an opportunistic defense and a strong second half to handle the surprising Raiders. Later, Brady had a solid game as the Buccaneers overran a weak Broncos team. This looks like a split to me, the Patriots win was a typical Patriots win no matter who is at QB while the Bucs played one of their better all around games in a while to smother Denver.
So after 3 weeks, the score remains tied between RSM & MDDad, 1.5 to 1.5.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 6, 2020 19:00:16 GMT -8
This week was kind of weird & tough to score.
Brady threw 5 TD passes and at first glance, one would say he made the difference in winning the game compared to Winston last year. However, Brady was also partially responsible for putting the Bucs in a 24-7 deficit with a pick 6 and this win was against a lousy Chargers team with a rookie QB making his 2nd start. in other words, Tampa should have won this game easily and instead they struggled. They did get the win, which is one of the reasons why you sign a QB like Brady, but he assisted in making it tougher than it should have been.
Meanwhile, The Patriots have to do the unprecedented and fly in the same day to a game that had been postponed 1 day, getting off the plane just a few short hours prior to kickoff. They were without their starting QB, yet with seconds to go before the half, they were down only 6-3 with the ball inside the Chiefs 20. All this went for naught as they lost handily to a superior Chief team, but that was expected. Further, this comparison is between Brady & any other top flight QB (such as Newton) at the helm for the Patriots, so we didn't get that matchup.
All said & done, I'm going to call it a wash, keeping the score tied at 2 - 2 after 4 weeks.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 9, 2020 12:40:26 GMT -8
Pretty big bust to lose track of downs at that point in the game.
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 12, 2020 19:00:44 GMT -8
So with the Patriots game this week being covid postponed, all we have is the Bucs/Bears game from Thursday. Near the end of the 1st quarter, I was starting to wonder if maybe I was wrong & MDDad was right. Here was Brady carving up a good defense, leading Tampa to a 13-0 lead. Maybe I was wrong about Brady being goat. EEEEEHHHNNT, wrong answer. Terrific Tom helped the Bucs snatch defeat from the jaws of victory and even forgot what down it was on the potential game winning drive. Brady's performance in this game did not help Tampa Bay any more than any other competent QB would have, so this one goes to me.
After 5 weeks, RSM 2.5, MDdad 2
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 12, 2020 21:30:06 GMT -8
While I appreciate the effort you put into this every week, is there a point to it? Do you really think that what a 43-year-old man does or doesn't accomplish on a mediocre team has any effect on his standing on the GOAT list?
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 12, 2020 23:12:26 GMT -8
RSM your takes are pathetic. Go watch some Ali fights at the end of his career and come back and make your case how he is not GOAT. You suffer from BDS.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Oct 13, 2020 6:01:36 GMT -8
Maybe a better way to evaluate this would be to compare Brady this year to all prior Q's aged 43. Then compare Brady last year to all prior 42 yr olds and so forth. Here's the 10 oldest Q's in history. www.oldest.org/sports/nfl-quarterbacks/ |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 13, 2020 17:57:19 GMT -8
...Do you really think that what a 43-year-old man does or doesn't accomplish on a mediocre team has any effect on his standing on the GOAT list? There are two things that you refuse to admit or address, yet you repeat them to the point that you are actually lying about them. First, Tampa Bay is not a mediocre team. The talent they have has raised expectations to the point that they are considered an upper level team in the NFC and were expected to make the playoffs at the start of the season. You continue to undersell this, apparently to then claim that Brady is GOAT just because Tampa makes the playoffs. Stop sandbagging on the talent Tampa has and the expectations of what they should accomplish with a person you consider to be GOAT leading the team. Second, you only mention Brady's age when it helps explain his poor performance. When he throws 5 TD passes like he did against the Chargers, suddenly his age doesn't matter. Again, you are sandbagging for him, setting the expectations so low that if he just shows up, you call him GOAT. If you want to excuse his performance as an older QB, then take away the last 3 Super Bowl wins and just use his pre age 35 stats & 3-2 Super Bowl record and try to make the GOAT argument then. What this & next year may show is how much of the Patriots success was due to Brady & how much of Brady's success was due to the Patriots. You seem afraid of what this may reveal. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 13, 2020 17:57:47 GMT -8
RSM your takes are pathetic. Go watch some Ali fights at the end of his career and come back and make your case how he is not GOAT. You suffer from BDS. Wrong, wrong & wrong.  |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Oct 13, 2020 18:12:29 GMT -8
...to then claim that Brady is GOAT just because Tampa makes the playoffs. No, Brady is the GOAT whether Tampa goes 16-0 or 0-16. That's the point. His position on the list has been established and your subjective (and biased?) analyses of every game he plays this year does not change that. Albert Pujols is arguably one of the three greatest first basemen of all time, and his less than mediocre years with the Angels do not change that either. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 14, 2020 20:35:08 GMT -8
...to then claim that Brady is GOAT just because Tampa makes the playoffs. No, Brady is the GOAT whether Tampa goes 16-0 or 0-16. That's the point. You are making a decision without all of the evidence in, ignoring signs that while he is a Hall of Fame QB, he is not GOAT. He only won titles at the beginning and end of his career, when his influence on the team was less than it was when he was in his prime. In his prime, he only lost Super Bowls and had a run of getting bounced out of the playoffs in the first round. There is a preponderance of evidence that the Patriots would have won those Super Bowls without Brady at the helm and that Belichick and the Patriots had more to do with Bradys success than Brady did towards the Patriots success. We have a unique situation where we get to judge both entities separate from each other. I understand Brady is not at his prime, but he is still as good as he was 5 years ago. At that time, the Patriots won Super Bowls. If Brady was responsible for that, if he is GOAT, then it would follow that he could at least make Tampa Bay better than they were with Winston. Further, if Belichick was responsible for those Super Bowls, than it would follow that he could take a Cam Newton, plug him in Brady's spot and have similar success. I am willing to call Brady GOAT if this year shows evidence that he makes Tampa a better team and the Patriots turn out not being able to compete at their formerly high level. I am willing to look at evidence and evaluate it. You are not, you are just like those who push man made climate change and declare that the debate is over. Fingers in your ears, eyes closed, saying "Nay Nay, I can't hear you, Brady is GOAT". |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Oct 18, 2020 19:40:57 GMT -8
Once again, the Patriots lose a close game in which they have the ball at the end of the game and a touchdown would have given them a win. It was one of those games where you expect a Brady, Manning or Montana to lead their team to victory, so since Cam newton was once again not up to the task, I will put this in the "patriots need Brady" category.
The Bucs game was the exact opposite of last week. After being rolled for 10 quick points and having to punt for the 2nd straight time, Tampa bay woke up. Their defense carried them to the lead with a pick 6 and a 2nd interception return to the 3 yard line. Brady had an average game, but the mark of a great QB is to not screw things up when the rest of the team is rolling. Although Tampa may have won this game with Winston at QB, I still have to give Brady credit for making Tampa better. If MDDad watched this game, I would hope he reconsiders his numerous comments about Tampa being a mediocre team.
So for the first time this year, MDDad takes the lead 3 to 2.5
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