davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on Mar 6, 2020 18:07:41 GMT -8
I'm not saying that many of puerile comments are not accurate, and I'm not saying that politicians in the past are not also sometimes guilty of crossing the line. But this is an American president who is continuously making comments more suitable for a New York taxi driver. You don't believe that points can be effectively made without appealing to the lowest common denominator? Eventually he's going to be out of office, and what if some similarly rabid left wing firebrand takes his place? Do you think it's good for the country to toss out the tradition of measured speech and logic in favor of " Your mama wears Army boots"? Do you really not want to hold an American president to a standard of speech higher than an anonymous website such as this? You don't think there's going to be any repercussions to that? You can support someone's policies and at the same time bemoan their demeanor. You're entitled to your impression of the man, but he's sure as hell no role model for any subsequent president I hope to see............................Luca I agree with your description of Trumps personality and how it would be better if no one from either side acted in such a manner. 100% agree. Where I disagree is the theory that Trump is most responsible for the current discourse. For decades the left has hammered Republican presidents and presidential candidates, treating them in a non civil manner and expecting them to just sit there and take it. For the first time since before Reagan, there is a Republican president who fights back in the manner that the left does, but does it even more effectively than they (after all, he did grow up as a Democrat). So I submit that not only is the left responsible for the current incivility, they are also responsible for frustrating the electorate of the right to the point that someone like Trump could win the presidency. When a person or group is bullied continuously, there comes a time where they eventually fight back. When it comes to linguistic crassness, the responsibility for the current situation in politics falls directly in the lefts lap. Now that you mention it, you’re right. The left has perpetuated this constant hyperbole and vicious, unfounded attacks against especially all things conservative. I have found it maddening that “we” just sit and take it, even our little corner of the world: Conservatives dare stand up to the liberal, illogic of the left and we are excoriated, punished, driven out because we won’t shut up, and we won’t buy their weak-sauce, feeble line. while I still believe Trump should tone it down and get rid of his twitter account (please), I do enjoy it when he calls a spade a spade (as he does frequently with the Press Corps). |
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,378
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Post by SK80 on Mar 6, 2020 18:18:09 GMT -8
This is our GLOBE brothers! Show the same class you bestow and require upon others.... (crap..., would become one freakin boring universe here!)  |
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,317
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Post by Luca on Mar 6, 2020 20:12:55 GMT -8
You make a good point and I have to agree with that. Republican presidents ever since Nixon have, with the exception of George Bush the First, been portrayed by the major media as either an ”amiable dunce” (Reagan) or an actual dullard (Ford and Bush II). So you really can’t feel too sorry for those segments of the media when the President treats them like horse manure.
The confrontational approach to the press has probably been beneficial. But I don’t think it’s asking too much to do it with a little more panache and a little less low brow carnival barker. And I don’t think you can justify by the same reasoning the crass way he goes after every political opponent. “They started it” doesn’t strike me as an adequate justification to demean the office.................Luca
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Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,901
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Post by Bick on Mar 6, 2020 20:52:21 GMT -8
If he did the playground stuff on rare occasion, I suppose it would be tolerable. But he does it as a regular method of discourse. It's not a good look for us as Americans to have our leader do this. It's "pull my finger" humor. Funny once or three times, but pretty weird as an ongoing shtick in his position.
However, as been mentioned here in many instances, the substance of his accomplishments trumps his childish style.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Mar 6, 2020 23:55:45 GMT -8
I'm not saying that many of puerile comments are not accurate, and I'm not saying that politicians in the past are not also sometimes guilty of crossing the line. But this is an American president who is continuously making comments more suitable for a New York taxi driver. You don't believe that points can be effectively made without appealing to the lowest common denominator? Eventually he's going to be out of office, and what if some similarly rabid left wing firebrand takes his place? Do you think it's good for the country to toss out the tradition of measured speech and logic in favor of " Your mama wears Army boots"? Do you really not want to hold an American president to a standard of speech higher than an anonymous website such as this? You don't think there's going to be any repercussions to that? You can support someone's policies and at the same time bemoan their demeanor. You're entitled to your impression of the man, but he's sure as hell no role model for any subsequent president I hope to see............................Luca I agree with your description of Trumps personality and how it would be better if no one from either side acted in such a manner. 100% agree. Where I disagree is the theory that Trump is most responsible for the current discourse. For decades the left has hammered Republican presidents and presidential candidates, treating them in a non civil manner and expecting them to just sit there and take it. For the first time since before Reagan, there is a Republican president who fights back in the manner that the left does, but does it even more effectively than they (after all, he did grow up as a Democrat). So I submit that not only is the left responsible for the current incivility, they are also responsible for frustrating the electorate of the right to the point that someone like Trump could win the presidency. When a person or group is bullied continuously, there comes a time where they eventually fight back. When it comes to linguistic crassness, the responsibility for the current situation in politics falls directly in the lefts lap. The portion of your post in red is exactly the way I see it also, and I have felt strongly for decades, that the previous Republican presidents, by continuously turning the other cheek and "rising above," have only caused the Dems to feel entitled to insult with impunity. It's been that way for so long, that they feel butt-hurt about it, and don't know how to handle it. And pay no attention to what Luca says...His mama is so low, she can play handball against the curb. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Mar 7, 2020 0:23:58 GMT -8
No, I think he's much more like the most powerful man in the world, with his finger on the nuclear button, and the emotional hair-trigger responses and complete lack of self-control of a spoiled five-year-old. To think that he "constantly comes through in the clutch" is a view through rose-colored glasses. I have to take issue with this statement, at least in part. While his mouth definitely produces "hair-trigger responses," his actions are well thought out, like a chess master, looking a few moves ahead. It appears to me that he weighs what the opposition's response to his actions may be, and then makes the move he thinks will produce the best result. That's why we're not at war with N. Korea, and not at war with Iran. That's also why the USA is getting the better of China in the trade disputes. |
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Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,317
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Post by Luca on Mar 7, 2020 7:56:05 GMT -8
We haven’t been at war with North Korea for over 60 years and we’ve never been at war with Iran. I’m not sure we can credit Donald Trump for that.
If his comments and behavior are “well thought out”, I’d hate to see what would happen if he ever became impulsive and emotional................Luca
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Mar 7, 2020 8:09:57 GMT -8
We haven’t been at war with North Korea for over 60 years and we’ve never been at war with Iran. I’m not sure we can credit Donald Trump for that. If his comments and behavior are “well thought out”, I’d hate to see what would happen if he ever became impulsive and emotional................Luca I think he has the ability to make strategic statements, expecting a given response. I observe, however, he doesn’t always do so. |
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,816
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Post by MDDad on Mar 7, 2020 8:52:23 GMT -8
I have to take issue with this statement, at least in part. While his mouth definitely produces "hair-trigger responses," his actions are well thought out, like a chess master, looking a few moves ahead. It appears to me that he weighs what the opposition's response to his actions may be, and then makes the move he thinks will produce the best result. That's why we're not at war with N. Korea, and not at war with Iran. That's also why the USA is getting the better of China in the trade disputes. Then you must have a very low opinion of chess masters. We weren't at war with North Korea or Iran BEFORE Trump took office, and relations with the world's next premier economic superpower are as chilly as they've been in many years. |
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Post by coach on Mar 7, 2020 14:12:45 GMT -8
Hey! Where is the penciled turtle necked geek to defend shuma threatening the judges?
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Post by ProfessorFate on Mar 7, 2020 17:07:24 GMT -8
We haven’t been at war with North Korea for over 60 years and we’ve never been at war with Iran. I’m not sure we can credit Donald Trump for that. If his comments and behavior are “well thought out”, I’d hate to see what would happen if he ever became impulsive and emotional................Luca I didn't say his comments were well thought out. |
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Post by ProfessorFate on Mar 7, 2020 17:31:09 GMT -8
Then you must have a very low opinion of chess masters. We weren't at war with North Korea or Iran BEFORE Trump took office, and relations with the world's next premier economic superpower are as chilly as they've been in many years. Right, but my point is that despite more than three years of people claiming that Trump would get us into WWIII, It hasn't happened, because his moves are carefully calculated...unlike the words he blurts out day-to-day. |
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,816
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Post by MDDad on Mar 7, 2020 22:26:22 GMT -8
The fact that so many fools made silly predictions about what dire things would happen under a Trump presidency is a reflection of their idiocy, not Trump's abilities.
And I don't believe anyone can be as Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde as you want to think Trump is. He can't be a strategic genius who brilliantly calculates his every move while at the same time being totally incapable of controlling or filtering what he says and tweets without any forethought. People aren't built that way.
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SK80
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Posts: 7,378
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Post by SK80 on Mar 8, 2020 7:58:36 GMT -8
The fact that so many fools made silly predictions about what dire things would happen under a Trump presidency is a reflection of their idiocy, not Trump's abilities. And I don't believe anyone can be as Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde as you want to think Trump is. He can't be a strategic genius who brilliantly calculates his every move while at the same time being totally incapable of controlling or filtering what he says and tweets without any forethought. People aren't built that way. Yes some silly fools made some silly emotionally charged predictions. But to claim Trump has 'no ability" is purely ludicrous. Only someone whom believes getting through the maze that lands one in the oval office is something "by chance". "And I don't believe anyone can be as Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde as you want to think Trump is." Believe as you wish, a President Dr. Jekyl. "He can't be a strategic genius who brilliantly calculates his every move while at the same time being totally incapable of controlling or filtering what he says and tweets without any forethought. People aren't built that way." It appears that MDDad created man....  |
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Mar 8, 2020 8:03:43 GMT -8
The fact that so many fools made silly predictions about what dire things would happen under a Trump presidency is a reflection of their idiocy, not Trump's abilities. And I don't believe anyone can be as Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde as you want to think Trump is. He can't be a strategic genius who brilliantly calculates his every move while at the same time being totally incapable of controlling or filtering what he says and tweets without any forethought. People aren't built that way. Again with the hyperbole and exaggeration? no one but you has used words like “his every move” and “ totally incapable,” and “ without any.” people aren’t built THAT way: We, the people, are inconsistent and often driven by emotion. So one person can, indeed, rattle off insults in one breath and exact a perfect strategy in the next. Those two events are driven by different areas of the brain. a good example is a 12 year old academic prodigy: Able to solve complex physics problems with ease, but also given to emotional, childish outbursts. |
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