Bick
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Religion
Mar 28, 2020 11:46:17 GMT -8
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Post by Bick on Mar 28, 2020 11:46:17 GMT -8
Pretty much everyone here is more grounded in formal religion than me. Was curious about our collective belief in the various religions.
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Post by reachmole on Mar 28, 2020 12:51:53 GMT -8
Credo...is it safe to assume you're well read enough in religious studies to compare and contrast some of the other main religions? What I'm most interested in is the Muslim faith, and where it splinters off from what I assume is "good", to the radicalized version of it that directs killing of the infidels. I am very interested in seeing where this topic goes. I have my opinion (although I am no expert on Islam) but will wait till Credo answers, since this was directed to him. |
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Bick
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Religion
Mar 28, 2020 13:18:09 GMT -8
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Post by Bick on Mar 28, 2020 13:18:09 GMT -8
Yeah that was a bust on my part, mole. No need to wait.
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Post by reachmole on Mar 28, 2020 14:03:30 GMT -8
Yeah that was a bust on my part, mole. No need to wait. Thanks Bick. From what I have read, Islam started out in pretty much the same way we see it today. Different tactics, but the same goal, complete and total subjugation of the world. I know this is not a very politically correct position in this day of revisionist history, but if you think about it, they almost pulled it off (see map). By 750 AD they had conquered all of Arabia, north Africa, Persia, western India, more than half of the Byzantine Empire and Spain. If it wasn’t for Byzantines’ Greek Fire and the strong hold of Constantinople in the east, and Charles Martel and the Franks in the west, who knows what would have happened? My point is this. The Muslim religion started with the sword in hand, and it is still wielding one. That being said, I have worked in IT for well over twenty years, and there are many Muslims in IT. Every single Muslim I have worked with has generally been very nice, kind and polite. But one must only look at the countries where Islam is the dominate faith. Non-Muslims are treated very poorly. In Egypt, for example, the Coptic Christians are treated terribly! During the first gulf war, the Saudis would not let out US troops bring their Bibles into the country! We’re here to save your butt and our troops can bring their Bibles? Anyway, I have rambled enough. Looking forward to others perspective on this matter. BTW - Not sure if my map will come through full size. But if not, you get the idea. .  Attachments:
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Mar 28, 2020 14:47:44 GMT -8
Mmmmmmmm, O.K. Then, let’s get started...
Origins
Islam: founded by Mohammed in the 600’s BC, when he was visited by an Angel. Mohammed claims to be the last great prophet, but Muslims refer to Jesus as a great prophet so a bit of confusion there. Mohammed set up the rules of what became Islam according to what he said this Angel told him, some of which are plural wives (Mohammed had upwards of 15) and death to non Muslims (the latter of which, Muslims will tell you is not true, but it IS written in the Qu’ran, along with the prescribed way to kill them, being slicing the throat).
Christianity: Founded as a perfection of... or a continuation of Judaism by the central (what is considered) Deity who gave up His divine authority to join mankind and experience being a human being, with the intent of providing both an example of how to live and a unique path to salvation. Jesus did not marry and, in fact, effectively elevated women to a level with men, although with different attributes and different contributions. Jesus taught love for all, including those who mistreat His followers, and while there is a penalty for unbelief, such penalty occurs after death, it does not hasten death.
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Post by ProfessorFate on Mar 28, 2020 14:57:16 GMT -8
Yeah that was a bust on my part, mole. No need to wait. Thanks Bick. From what I have read, Islam started out in pretty much the same way we see it today. Different tactics, but the same goal, complete and total subjugation of the world. I know this is not a very politically correct position in this day of revisionist history, but if you think about it, they almost pulled it off (see map). By 750 AD they had conquered all of Arabia, north Africa, Persia, western India, more than half of the Byzantine Empire and Spain. If it wasn’t for Byzantines’ Greek Fire and the strong hold of Constantinople in the east, and Charles Martel and the Franks in the west, who knows what would have happened? My point is this. The Muslim religion started with the sword in hand, and it is still wielding one. That being said, I have worked in IT for well over twenty years, and there are many Muslims in IT. Every single Muslim I have worked with has generally been very nice, kind and polite. But one must only look at the countries where Islam is the dominate faith. Non-Muslims are treated very poorly. In Egypt, for example, the Coptic Christians are treated terribly! During the first gulf war, the Saudis would not let out US troops bring their Bibles into the country! We’re here to save your butt and our troops can bring their Bibles? Anyway, I have rambled enough. Looking forward to others perspective on this matter. BTW - Not sure if my map will come through full size. But if not, you get the idea. . Very interesting stuff, 'Mole. It's been a long time since I was in school. Some of what you posted I knew, and some of it I didn't. (Or being an old fogey, probably just forgot). I was able to get the 2nd map go to full size by clicking on it but not the first, but they are the same, I think. |
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Post by reachmole on Mar 28, 2020 15:12:32 GMT -8
Thanks Bick. From what I have read, Islam started out in pretty much the same way we see it today. Different tactics, but the same goal, complete and total subjugation of the world. I know this is not a very politically correct position in this day of revisionist history, but if you think about it, they almost pulled it off (see map). By 750 AD they had conquered all of Arabia, north Africa, Persia, western India, more than half of the Byzantine Empire and Spain. If it wasn’t for Byzantines’ Greek Fire and the strong hold of Constantinople in the east, and Charles Martel and the Franks in the west, who knows what would have happened? My point is this. The Muslim religion started with the sword in hand, and it is still wielding one. That being said, I have worked in IT for well over twenty years, and there are many Muslims in IT. Every single Muslim I have worked with has generally been very nice, kind and polite. But one must only look at the countries where Islam is the dominate faith. Non-Muslims are treated very poorly. In Egypt, for example, the Coptic Christians are treated terribly! During the first gulf war, the Saudis would not let out US troops bring their Bibles into the country! We’re here to save your butt and our troops can bring their Bibles? Anyway, I have rambled enough. Looking forward to others perspective on this matter. BTW - Not sure if my map will come through full size. But if not, you get the idea. . Very interesting stuff, 'Mole. It's been a long time since I was in school. Some of what you posted I knew, and some of it I didn't. (Or being an old fogey, probably just forgot). I was able to get the 2nd map go to full size by clicking on it but not the first, but they are the same, I think. It's strange, I only attached it once. Not sure why there were two. I did try to move the attachment. I guess that was the problem. |
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Post by reachmole on Mar 28, 2020 15:22:23 GMT -8
Mmmmmmmm, O.K. Then, let’s get started... OriginsIslam: founded by Mohammed in the 600’s BC, when he was visited by an Angel. Mohammed claims to be the last great prophet, but Muslims refer to Jesus as a great prophet so a bit of confusion there. Mohammed set up the rules of what became Islam according to what he said this Angel told him, some of which are plural wives (Mohammed had upwards of 15) and death to non Muslims (the latter of which, Muslims will tell you is not true, but it IS written in the Qu’ran, along with the prescribed way to kill them, being slicing the throat). Christianity: Founded as a perfection of... or a continuation of Judaism by the central (what is considered) Deity who gave up His divine authority to join mankind and experience being a human being, with the intent of providing both an example of how to live and a unique path to salvation. Jesus did not marry and, in fact, effectively elevated women to a level with men, although with different attributes and different contributions. Jesus taught love for all, including those who mistreat His followers, and while there is a penalty for unbelief, such penalty occurs after death, it does not hasten death. Well put, David! |
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Bick
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Religion
Mar 28, 2020 15:31:39 GMT -8
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Post by Bick on Mar 28, 2020 15:31:39 GMT -8
Mmmmmmmm, O.K. Then, let’s get started... OriginsIslam: founded by Mohammed in the 600’s BC, when he was visited by an Angel. Mohammed claims to be the last great prophet, but Muslims refer to Jesus as a great prophet so a bit of confusion there. Mohammed set up the rules of what became Islam according to what he said this Angel told him, some of which are plural wives (Mohammed had upwards of 15) and death to non Muslims (the latter of which, Muslims will tell you is not true, but it IS written in the Qu’ran, along with the prescribed way to kill them, being slicing the throat) Do you think all, most, or some Muslims believe they are supposed to kill the infidels? I would hope they've got a moral code that parallels Christianity for the most part, but what drives the news we read is the worst part of that religion. |
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on Mar 29, 2020 7:51:12 GMT -8
Mmmmmmmm, O.K. Then, let’s get started... OriginsIslam: founded by Mohammed in the 600’s BC, when he was visited by an Angel. Mohammed claims to be the last great prophet, but Muslims refer to Jesus as a great prophet so a bit of confusion there. Mohammed set up the rules of what became Islam according to what he said this Angel told him, some of which are plural wives (Mohammed had upwards of 15) and death to non Muslims (the latter of which, Muslims will tell you is not true, but it IS written in the Qu’ran, along with the prescribed way to kill them, being slicing the throat) Do you think all, most, or some Muslims believe they are supposed to kill the infidels? I would hope they've got a moral code that parallels Christianity for the most part, but what drives the news we read is the worst part of that religion. I have spoken with Muslims who do not believe they must kill, I have spoken to Muslims who believe they have a choice to kill or not kill, but I have never spoken directly with a Muslim who believes they must kill non-believers (I have only read about this latter group). In my opinion, very much like Christianity today, some who profess “Christian” as their religion accept all, most, or some of Scripture as accurate and compelling of our behavior. GodIslamAllah is the sovereign creator of all, and he can choose to love and/or to be merciful, but he doesn’t have to be. Allah is impersonal and unknowable. He demands only obedience and punishes those who do not obey. ChristianGod is the sovereign creator of all, but love, mercy, and justice are intrinsic to His nature. He is love, etc.. God is knowable (to the extent we are capable of knowing an eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent being) and He loves us whether or not we obey. He also punishes disobedience, but His punishment is eternal damnation (different understandings of what that means) after we die. While He desires obedience, it is obedience based on a relationship and not on a mandate. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 29, 2020 8:45:48 GMT -8
Do you know if Muslims believe it's OK to kill, even if they don't necessarily want to themselves? Read in the past there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim, but I suspect that's more a function of hyperbole.
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by davidsf on Mar 29, 2020 9:55:37 GMT -8
Do you know if Muslims believe it's OK to kill, even if they don't necessarily want to themselves? Read in the past there's no such thing as a moderate Muslim, but I suspect that's more a function of hyperbole. Devout Muslims of any stripe preface everything they do with “If Allah wills it.” By “devout,” I do not mean “zealous.” Devout means, simply, real adherence to their belief system, just to clarify. while I have never asked a Muslim if it is O.K. to kill another human being, the Qu’ran actually condones it so long as they do not murder another Muslim (although I’m sure Sharia Law will somehow provide an escape clause for even that, I do not know with any degree of certainty). The underlying precept, here, does not appear to be the sanctity of human life, but the will of Allah. SalvationIslam: salvation solely by works and obedience to Allah (meaning salvation only available to Muslims). So, basically, you have to keep the five pillars of Islam: - Pray the Shaddah (“no God but Allah, no Prophet but Mohammed”)
- Face Mecca and pray 5 times a day
- Give to the poor
- Fast during Ramadan
- Visit Mecca (or be saving money to visit)
and anything else Allah wills you to do
Christianity: Salvation by Grace through Faith in Christ and not by works. Side note: Throughout the Old Testament, and particularly in the Pentateuch (first five books), God told the Israelites what they had to do to make themselves good enough for salvation. They failed, and we fail every day, as God knew (and knows) they/we would. Jesus showed us how we should be living and, as a man, how we COULD be living, and then died on the cross as the price that had to be paid for OUR sin (since He was sin-free). |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Apr 2, 2020 10:50:21 GMT -8
Drive-thru Confession. Love it.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Apr 2, 2020 10:54:26 GMT -8
Drive-thru Confession. Love it. Maybe not quite as private or anonymous with that camera there... or out in the open, I guess. |
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
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Post by MDDad on Apr 2, 2020 11:00:43 GMT -8
I guess a crisis will bring out the best in creativity and entrepreneurship. But what's next, drive-through glory holes?
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