davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
|
Post by davidsf on Sept 18, 2021 5:09:34 GMT -8
Wouldn't returning to a stronger states' rights republic be a quasi Balkanization everyone could live with?
Basically castrate the federal government monstrosity but not dissolve it all together...
|
|
MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,815
|
Post by MDDad on Sept 18, 2021 6:23:58 GMT -8
It also isn't at all "patriotic" to discuss secession, it's treasonous. It is not treasonous to discuss secession. We've done it in every American history class for 150 years. You clearly don't know what the word means. Your side has spit on, attacked, undermined, puked on, burned, refuted, pissed on, ridiculed, replaced, hated and wiped their ass with that flag and everything it represents for years, and you claim the other side would destroy it? That's pretty hilarious. |
|
SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,377
|
Post by SK80 on Sept 18, 2021 6:42:10 GMT -8
Wouldn't returning to a stronger states' rights republic be a quasi Balkanization everyone could live with? Basically castrate the federal government monstrosity but not dissolve it all together... Thats what a republic is Dave, we have people on the left claiming its just s democracy and feel better about a Federal Power over state power, it give these leftist minions the ability to control others lives. |
|
Bick
Administrator 
Posts: 6,900
|
Post by Bick on Sept 18, 2021 8:09:00 GMT -8
It also isn't at all "patriotic" to discuss secession, it's treasonous. It is not treasonous to discuss secession. We've done it in every American history class for 150 years. You clearly don't know what the word means. Your side has spit on, attacked, undermined, puked on, burned, refuted, pissed on, ridiculed, replaced, hated and wiped their ass with that flag and everything it represents for years, and you claim the other side would destroy it? That's pretty hilarious. I'm mildly surprised Vile would want anything to do with the having to deal with the right, and wouldn't welcome the opportunity to be "right-free" (see what I did there  . The left makes it abundantly clear they can't stand the right, and vice versa. Wouldn't a mutual separation agreement be appropriate here? Isn't the alternative, and current political condition here, to gain power to rule the other side against their will by force? |
|
davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
|
Post by davidsf on Sept 18, 2021 8:12:52 GMT -8
Wouldn't returning to a stronger states' rights republic be a quasi Balkanization everyone could live with? Basically castrate the federal government monstrosity but not dissolve it all together... Thats what a republic is Dave, we have people on the left claiming its just s democracy and feel better about a Federal Power over state power, it give these leftist minions the ability to control others lives. I know that, but we're seeing a growing and out-of-control Federal government that is working against the will of the people. I didn't use the phrase "a return to" but that is what I advocate. |
|
MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,815
|
Post by MDDad on Sept 18, 2021 8:39:32 GMT -8
Wouldn't a mutual separation agreement be appropriate here? Isn't the alternative, and current political condition here, to gain power to rule the other side against their will by force? I don't think both sides feel that way. Conservatives' primary driver is to be left alone. Liberals' primary driver is that they know best about everything and everyone needs to fall in line with those feelings. There can be no dissent that leads to contrary beliefs or actions. The differences have gone so far down the road from political to personal that I don't see a clear way back. Maybe it's the beginning of the end. A buddy of mine made two insightful comments in a chat we had a few nights ago. He said if a hundred left-wing radicals were stranded in Afghanistan you could quickly find a million right-wing conservatives willing to risk their lives to get them out. But if a hundred right-wing conservatives were stranded there, you'd be very hard pressed to find even one left-wing radical willing to do the same. And that's one of the things that makes us better than them. And then he observed that a country is like a piece of fruit. It starts out small and green, then it grows and sweetens. Then, for a short time it's at its height of good taste, but before long it starts to get soft and mushy. And then it rots. Maybe we're at the end of the soft and mushy stage. |
|
SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,377
|
Post by SK80 on Sept 18, 2021 8:48:07 GMT -8
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.
The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”
― Alexander Fraser Tytler
|
|
MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,815
|
Post by MDDad on Sept 18, 2021 8:53:14 GMT -8
These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.”
Sounds exactly like my fruit analogy. Also Tytler fails to mention that world powers' periods of ascendancy have grown shorter over the centuries. We are a significant anomaly in our length of time at the top. |
|
SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,377
|
Post by SK80 on Sept 18, 2021 9:03:00 GMT -8
Sounds exactly like my fruit analogy. Ya U & Ur Rotting Fruit Analogy...  |
|
|
|
Post by vilepagan on Sept 18, 2021 11:16:57 GMT -8
It also isn't at all "patriotic" to discuss secession, it's treasonous. It is not treasonous to discuss secession. We've done it in every American history class for 150 years. Your side has spit on...blah, blah, blah. You're right, but then again it's not as though you all are just discussing secession, you're advocating for secession...sort of different don't you think? Oh and I've never spit on the flag or any of the other nonsense you posted, so I guess I can just ignore your silly ranting. |
|
|
|
Post by vilepagan on Sept 18, 2021 11:22:19 GMT -8
I'm mildly surprised Vile would want anything to do with the having to deal with the right, and wouldn't welcome the opportunity to be "right-free" (see what I did there . The left makes it abundantly clear they can't stand the right, and vice versa. Wouldn't a mutual separation agreement be appropriate here? Isn't the alternative, and current political condition here, to gain power to rule the other side against their will by force? Well Bick I'm enough of a student of American history to know that secession is a non-starter. Then there's also the fact that I think it's a childish solution to the problem. Sort of like "if you don't play the way I like I'll take my ball and go home". You see political power as a way to control others and you imagine others see it the same way, but perhaps they do not. Perhaps a large part of the problem is your insistence on seeing others through your jaded viewpoint. |
|
|
|
Post by vilepagan on Sept 18, 2021 11:27:46 GMT -8
Wouldn't a mutual separation agreement be appropriate here? Isn't the alternative, and current political condition here, to gain power to rule the other side against their will by force? I don't think both sides feel that way. Conservatives' primary driver is to be left alone. Liberals' primary driver is that they know best about everything and everyone needs to fall in line with those feelings. There can be no dissent that leads to contrary beliefs or actions. The differences have gone so far down the road from political to personal that I don't see a clear way back. Maybe it's the beginning of the end. Really? I know you like to believe this but it's utter nonsense. Just look at abortion rights or gay rights...did the Conservatives want people to be left alone to decide these issues for themselves? No, they wanted the government to step in and force people to behave the way they wanted them to behave. Just like you claim the "left" acts. Oh, and your buddy isn't all that insightful...this country is not a piece of fruit. |
|
|
|
Post by ProfessorFate on Sept 18, 2021 19:00:03 GMT -8
It is not treasonous to discuss secession. We've done it in every American history class for 150 years. Your side has spit on...blah, blah, blah. You're right, but then again it's not as though you all are just discussing secession, you're advocating for secession...sort of different don't you think? Oh and I've never spit on the flag or any of the other nonsense you posted, so I guess I can just ignore your silly ranting. Yes, discussing secession , and advocating for it are two different things. But we are doing neither. We're advocating for a divorce. |
|
|
|
Post by vilepagan on Sept 19, 2021 2:37:44 GMT -8
You're right, but then again it's not as though you all are just discussing secession, you're advocating for secession...sort of different don't you think? Oh and I've never spit on the flag or any of the other nonsense you posted, so I guess I can just ignore your silly ranting. Yes, discussing secession , and advocating for it are two different things. But we are doing neither. We're advocating for a divorce. Sure you are. Perhaps you could tell me how your "divorce" is different from secession, and why it would be allowed under the Constitution. |
|
|
|
Post by ProfessorFate on Sept 19, 2021 2:43:54 GMT -8
Yes, discussing secession , and advocating for it are two different things. But we are doing neither. We're advocating for a divorce. Sure you are. Perhaps you could tell me how your "divorce" is different from secession, and why it would be allowed under the Constitution. Sure, no problem. I'm talking about a mutually agreed upon split, not a secession. |
|
. The left makes it abundantly clear they can't stand the right, and vice versa. Wouldn't a mutual separation agreement be appropriate here? Isn't the alternative, and current political condition here, to gain power to rule the other side against their will by force? 
