Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 23, 2020 6:10:09 GMT -8
In case anyone else here is learning impaired, or gives a damn...
1. Politicians embellish, mislead, are wrong, are delusional, and lie to a greater or lesser extent. They are NOT all the same even though they may share that trait.
2. In order to differentiate which of those best represents an inaccurate statement, you would have to know with certainty the intent, or be certain what that person knows
3. Without interacting with that person, I won't likely know with certainty what that person knows.
4. I prefer to focus on whether statements are accurate v inaccurate.
5. I don't know or care whether Trump lied more than Obama. Don't know if he intended to deceive when selling his health care plan about keeping your doctor, or that prices would be lower. I do know that in some cases (like mine), he was wrong. His detractors are just are convinced he LIED, or so they say, as YOU are about Trump lying.
Lastly, Dave, if you really want to have a conversation with me, you won't go down the path of inaccurately representing what I say to try to make your point. Your attempt to represent my position by conflating "all politicians lie" with "they're all the same", is inaccurate.
Only you know what your intent was.
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 23, 2020 6:18:25 GMT -8
I did the same thing with the unobjective Obama detractors as well. I thought I was clear that I have a problem with mindless hyperbole. Let's try something different. Instead of me repeating myself multiple times, you just read it as many times as you need. No shame in that. I've watched the Dirty Dozen about 20 times, and pick up new stuff each time. Same here, but for me, I have literally (which, for a couple of the lesser educated amongst us, means, well literally) watched Hoosiers over 300 times, all the way through. We used to use the Coach (Gene Hackman) as an example of a leader in our Leadership Principles class and would stop the movie at various points throughout to discuss something he did (e.g. “why do you think Coach Dale relieved George of any responsibility over the team?” And “Was the Coach right or wrong to tell Shooter he had to get sober?”) |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 23, 2020 6:42:23 GMT -8
Why can't we just agree that all politicians say things that are untrue. It may be intentional (i.e. a lie) or unintentional (i.e. ignorant of the facts), but they all do it. Any politician who doesn't has no chance of getting elected. To debate for days the virtues of one lying less than another is like saying Chloe is less of a prostitute than Kim because she's slept with fewer Johns.
And other than Luca, I don't think anyone here has any professional training or experience in psychiatry or pathology, so it's pointless to argue whether Trump's lies are pathological or not.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Mar 23, 2020 6:57:45 GMT -8
And other than Luca, I don't think anyone here has any professional training or experience in psychiatry or pathology, so it's pointless to argue whether Trump's lies are pathological or not. does anyone need any training or message board experience to make a prognosis that BeijingDave is a pathological poster! |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 23, 2020 7:05:16 GMT -8
It's a misdirect, MDD. Guys on the left can only argue the lying bit, and can't / won't get into policy decisions.
Maybe Luca, or someone with some formal training in psychology, could weigh in on why people 50+ would be seemingly incapable of having a reasoned discussion, and / or resort to deflection / name calling etc.
Trump HAS to know his name calling BS is childish...right? Is it just more a function of providing entertainment value to those who think it's funny?
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 23, 2020 7:36:56 GMT -8
Trump HAS to know his name calling BS is childish...right? I really don't think he does, or if he does, he doesn't care. He has a very childlike way of speaking, and a visceral, emotional, childlike way of responding to things. He may not know he's being childish any more than a 5-year-old does. |
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davidsf
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Post by davidsf on Mar 23, 2020 7:51:00 GMT -8
Trump HAS to know his name calling BS is childish...right? I really don't think he does, or if he does, he doesn't care. He has a very childlike way of speaking, and a visceral, emotional, childlike way of responding to things. He may not know he's being childish any more than a 5-year-old does. Don’t you think it’s sort of like arguing with Wabash or his alter ego, here? maybe he knows it’s wrong (e.g. “childish” or another adjective), or maybe he doesn’t, but he just can’t help himself ... and possibly, as with arguing with Wabash or Bostonwabash, there is some intrinsic entertainment value he gains from aggravating the liberals and Bostonprohressives. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Mar 23, 2020 7:53:39 GMT -8
...He has a very childlike way of speaking, and a visceral, emotional, childlike way of responding to things. He may not know he's being childish any more than a 5-year-old does. There is an interview of Trump by Rona Barrett from 30 plus years ago, if you get a chance, go back and watch it (it is only 5 minutes or so). What is very telling is the way he spoke then. The pace, the flow of the way he spoke then was the same, but he used language littered with more words that are rarely used in everyday society. Comparing it to the way he speaks now, one gets the feeling that he learned over time that when speaking to an audience, you can either try to look smart by using an extensive vocabulary or you can communicate with more people by keeping it simple. You notice how often he repeats phrases immediately, it seems as if he is looking for the least ostentatious word to describe what he is saying and ends up repeating the simple ones in order to hammer home the point. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 23, 2020 8:12:46 GMT -8
maybe he knows it’s wrong (e.g. “childish” or another adjective), or maybe he doesn’t, but he just can’t help himself.I think that's very possible...and it's another attribute very common to young children. |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 23, 2020 8:20:12 GMT -8
There is an interview of Trump by Rona Barrett from 30 plus years ago, if you get a chance, go back and watch it (it is only 5 minutes or so). What is very telling is the way he spoke then. The pace, the flow of the way he spoke then was the same, but he used language littered with more words that are rarely used in everyday society. Comparing it to the way he speaks now, one gets the feeling that he learned over time that when speaking to an audience, you can either try to look smart by using an extensive vocabulary or you can communicate with more people by keeping it simple. You notice how often he repeats phrases immediately, it seems as if he is looking for the least ostentatious word to describe what he is saying and ends up repeating the simple ones in order to hammer home the point. I haven't seen the Rona Barrett one, but I've seen a couple where he appeared with Merv Griffin and Dick Cavett, and I have to admit I'm pretty shocked by the difference. Back then, he was extremely articulate and quick-witted, in a sophisticated kind of way. Now I get the impression that he's lost all of that. He seems to think more slowly than he speaks (which is never a good thing), he does frequently repeat phrases as you say, and I'm struck every time I hear him speak that he is so very childlike in his verbiage and his reactions. So far he hasn't come out and said he's running for the U.S.Senate, like Joe Biden recently did, but I'm certainly concerned about what looks to me like a disturbing decline in mental sharpness. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 23, 2020 8:29:33 GMT -8
I think he figured out what activist voters want...action & entertainment.
Think about every political rally, and compare / contrast it to the most popular sports, movies, or TV.
Boxing v Fischer / Spassky chess match. 2 mindless guys pummeling each other v 2 geniuses competing with each other. Which commands the Pay per View, a hay maker that opens a gash above the left eye, or knight to KB4?
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Mar 23, 2020 8:34:32 GMT -8
What I think you're saying is, we've dumbed down everything else, now we've even dumbed down the presidency to the intellectual level of a sit-com? That paints a frightening portrait of the American populace.
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 23, 2020 8:36:37 GMT -8
And other than Luca, I don't think anyone here has any professional training or experience in psychiatry or pathology, so it's pointless to argue whether Trump's lies are pathological or not. does anyone need any training or message board experience to make a prognosis that BeijingDave is a pathological poster! Whaddaya say we lay off the name calling? |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Mar 23, 2020 8:41:56 GMT -8
What I think you're saying is, we've dumbed down everything else, now we've even dumbed down the presidency to the intellectual level of a sit-com? That paints a frightening portrait of the American populace. I'd love to take credit for that position, but Edward Murrow beat me to the punch over a half a century ago. To your point, yes...I think that is an accurate assessment. I don't know the extent to which sit coms or "REALITY" TV is now the religious experience politics has become, but if you have any designs on public office, your STYLE needs to trump your SUBSTANCE. |
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RSM789
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Post by RSM789 on Mar 23, 2020 9:43:25 GMT -8
What I think you're saying is, we've dumbed down everything else, now we've even dumbed down the presidency to the intellectual level of a sit-com? That paints a frightening portrait of the American populace. I wouldn't call it dumbing down, but rather not alienating people. When it comes to communication, there is a fine line to walk. When I am talking to people about AV products, if I use alot of jargon or extremely specific language, I lose my audience. They aren't dumb people, I am just using language that they don't use in their every day life. So to get my message across, I try to relay the message in more simplistic terms. Again, that doesn't make the receiver dumb, it just means they aren't used to using the terms I could be throwing around. Luca could discuss his work in ways that would lose the rest of us quickly, but if he chooses more everyday language, we all get the message. I would say there is not a single dumb person among us, but since most of us don't use medical terminology on a daily basis, we need the message relayed in a different manner than medical professionals use among themselves. |
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