Luca
Master Statesman
Posts: 1,270
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Post by Luca on Apr 21, 2020 13:57:04 GMT -8
If you saw the movie "Zero Dark 30" you might remember the line when one of the intelligence officers confronted a White House aid who was resistant to going after Bin Laden's safe house in Pakistan because it was too risky.
He asked "How do you calculate the risk of doing nothing?"
We have somewhat of a grasp on what is going to happen regarding the pandemic with our current response. But is anybody calculating the risk of continuing the economic shutdown and restrictions?
What will be the cost of the increasing economic downturn in terms of lives lost, emotional health, savings lost, retirement funds depleted, insurance coverage lost, increasing poverty and unemployment? Who is calculating and comparing that cost?
I help direct a COVID screening clinic and it's becoming a waste of time. I can spend four hours waiting for patients to walk-in with their concerns and might see 3 or 4 of them over that time. Currently about 1 in every 400 Americans are known to be infected (probably far more) and the vast majority have recovered. Most of the deaths are occurring in a few isolated areas while the rest of the country is wondering why their parks and stores and businesses are shut down and they're supposed to wear masks.
I can understand the initial response, borne of fear and uncertainty. But now that the picture is little clearer it's time to introduce some common sense......................Luca
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Post by ProfessorFate on Apr 21, 2020 15:32:57 GMT -8
If you saw the movie "Zero Dark 30" you might remember the line when one of the intelligence officers confronted a White House aid who was resistant to going after Bin Laden's safe house in Pakistan because it was too risky. He asked "How do you calculate the risk of doing nothing?" We have somewhat of a grasp on what is going to happen regarding the pandemic with our current response. But is anybody calculating the risk of continuing the economic shutdown and restrictions? What will be the cost of the increasing economic downturn in terms of lives lost, emotional health, savings lost, retirement funds depleted, insurance coverage lost, increasing poverty and unemployment? Who is calculating and comparing that cost?
I help direct a COVID screening clinic and it's becoming a waste of time. I can spend four hours waiting for patients to walk-in with their concerns and might see 3 or 4 of them over that time. Currently about 1 in every 400 Americans are known to be infected (probably far more) and the vast majority have recovered. Most of the deaths are occurring in a few isolated areas while the rest of the country is wondering why their parks and stores and businesses are shut down and they're supposed to wear masks. I can understand the initial response, borne of fear and uncertainty. But now that the picture is little clearer it's time to introduce some common sense......................Luca The left likes to depict our concern about the state of the economy, as if it were just a concern over the bottom lines of big business, and over the stock portfolios. Oh, and Trump's reelection chances. They ignore everything you posted above (which I highlighted in red). They ignore the fact that if businesses go under, there will be no jobs for the lower and middle classes. They ignore the fact that many, (if not most) of those workers have IRAs, or 401Ks that are invested in the stock market, and their retirement savings are in danger of disappearing. This is particularly bad for those who are, or will soon be retired. I'm one of the lucky ones who have excellent pensions, and could survive retirement on those alone. But not every one is that lucky. But I digress. The main point is that concern for the economy is not just about big business and/or fat cats. The costs to the average Joe and Jill, which you have listed above, are what everyone is concerned about.
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,128
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Post by SK80 on Apr 21, 2020 15:40:40 GMT -8
You forgot all the borrowing, lending, printing, debt that will be handed to the younger generation....
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Apr 23, 2020 13:23:07 GMT -8
There are two rallies tomorrow in Orange County (Santa Ana and Newport Beach) and further rallies scheduled for next Friday to fully open up California my May 1. www.wehaverights.com/orange-county-march
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Credo
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,242
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Post by Credo on Apr 23, 2020 21:06:23 GMT -8
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Post by vilepagan on Apr 24, 2020 2:48:25 GMT -8
As if the problem here is the coronavirus....where was your concern about all this debt before the pandemic hit?
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,709
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Post by Bick on Apr 24, 2020 4:32:41 GMT -8
What will be the cost of the increasing economic downturn in terms of lives lost, emotional health, savings lost, retirement funds depleted, insurance coverage lost, increasing poverty and unemployment? Who is calculating and comparing that cost? I help direct a COVID screening clinic and it's becoming a waste of time. I can spend four hours waiting for patients to walk-in with their concerns and might see 3 or 4 of them over that time. Currently about 1 in every 400 Americans are known to be infected (probably far more) and the vast majority have recovered. Most of the deaths are occurring in a few isolated areas while the rest of the country is wondering why their parks and stores and businesses are shut down and they're supposed to wear masks. I can understand the initial response, borne of fear and uncertainty. But now that the picture is little clearer it's time to introduce some common sense......................Luca I think the term is "unintended consequences" of the inability to admit a mistake. If we stepped back and looked at this thru a social experiment lens, that's the most concerning aspect for me. It seems the various primarily Dem governors have a very large base of constituents more than willing to give up everything, and allow the state to dictate to them. We now have people wanting to be laid off so they can sit on their ass and collect unemployment. So disappointing to see this stuff. But to your point, the next wave of taxes and fees to pay for all this economic disaster, is something I can't get my head around yet. At the very least, I've got to believe we're looking at some inflationary times ahead, maybe some bank failures? That's where the buck stops, right? All those loans that are, and will be soon non performing HAS to have a significant impact.
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,128
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Post by SK80 on Apr 24, 2020 4:46:51 GMT -8
It seems as if a large segment (at least here in Ca.) of people think this could or should be a way of life, stay home is easier than venturing out into real life, sit at home, live through your computer and TV. When things go bad the government will help you, pay you, take care of you. We are becoming sit at homes believing we are productive by making masks and creating memes. Do these people now see this as the new American GDP? From the beginning, my biggest fear was not the virus, but how my fellow citizen reacted and acted and still seems to be....
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,709
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Post by Bick on Apr 24, 2020 5:22:06 GMT -8
To steal a line from MDDad, it's the pussification of America on full display.
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davidsf
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 5,252
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Post by davidsf on Apr 24, 2020 5:59:04 GMT -8
So, if that CBS poll is accurate (which I do not believe, but democrats do), there should be no further reason to mandate isolation since, according to their own source, lifting the restrictions won’t increase exposure.
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,128
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Post by SK80 on Apr 24, 2020 6:00:13 GMT -8
To steal a line from MDDad, it's the pussification of America on full display. I offer in debate amongst the fearful. I am willing and will take one for the team, I will freely throw myself into the face of this virus, if I do not already have or had it, give it to me now, I am prepared, healthy, I want to gain immunity to safely walk amongst you. The "pussified" shutter in terror when I explain this.
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,584
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Post by MDDad on Apr 24, 2020 6:20:36 GMT -8
I heard an excellent summary of this virus situation yesterday, To paraphrase, in New York City, this a public health problem, primarily because of tightly packed living and public transportation. In the rest of the country, it's a nursing home problem.
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SK80
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 7,128
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Post by SK80 on Apr 24, 2020 6:59:42 GMT -8
I heard an excellent summary of this virus situation yesterday, To paraphrase, in New York City, this a public health problem, primarily because of tightly packed living and public transportation. In the rest of the country, it's a nursing home problem. This is from MASSACHUSETTS which leads to credence to that observation....
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Bick
Administrator
Posts: 6,709
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Post by Bick on Apr 24, 2020 7:22:49 GMT -8
I'm pretty sure that graph is applicable everywhere in the US. But instead of reporting that alone, how about including the data points that show the # of flu deaths concurrently?
And then, a separate graph that shows those who died who had a preexisting condition v those that didn't.
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MDDad
Master Eminence Grise
Posts: 6,584
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Post by MDDad on Apr 24, 2020 7:47:36 GMT -8
I'm pretty sure that graph is applicable everywhere in the US. But instead of reporting that alone, how about including the data points that show the # of flu deaths concurrently? The problem with that is if a person dies of the flu, or a stroke, or the clap, or terminal stupidity, and tests positive for the coronavirus, the death goes in the COVID-19 column.
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