SK80
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Post by SK80 on Sept 22, 2021 4:11:30 GMT -8
You may not always get what you want, but you always get what you choose. You might just find you get what you need.  Just like MD needs them some La Mirada right about now...... ;P  |
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Post by frankieboy1 on Sept 22, 2021 10:36:14 GMT -8
It's easy to say a given school should play "a national schedule", as long as you don't have to face the financial impact (i.e. roughly $50K for each out-of-state game) or the fact that most kids can't afford to miss ten to 15 days of class to travel for games. It's unworkable. I'd be surprised if the Trinity league stays intact in the next couple years. Coupled with what seems to be slim pickings for local opponents, you may very well have to face that reality sooner than later. You may not always get what you want, but you always get what you choose. Don't see it happening. The other 4 schools are still very good teams a notch above most public programs, with the exception of Mission Viejo/Corona Centennial/Norco. There's also the question of other sports, where they are very competitive, and in some cases, elite (JSerra baseball/girls soccer and SM girls sports across the board come to mind). Basketball is top-drawer across the board with the exception of Servite. At the end of the day-the schools have more in common than they don't. And over time the "big 2" will come back to the pack and while they will be very good, not as dominant as they are now. |
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Sept 22, 2021 12:01:19 GMT -8
And over time the "big 2" will come back to the pack and while they will be very good, not as dominant as they are now. What makes you say that? Usually when programs fade it's because of 1). Demographics, like Fountain Valley, Banning, Carson, Tustin, etc. But MD/Bosco are not reliant on a given area's demographics, as they get transfers or pipeline kids from all over. 2). Coaching change. But Rollinson at this time appears to be more caretaker/rain-maker than an actual hands-on coach. I would think that kind of front man can be replaced without losing much, given the athletic budget and boosters (Bosco might be a different story in that regard). And MD/Bosco's success is based on over-the-top talent acquisition as opposed to superior coaching skills, anyway. The only way I see a change is if the money runs dry to finance all the scholarships/transportation. I don't see that happening at an established Catholic school near Newport Beach with an enrollment of some 2200, or as long as Brian wants Bosco to win.............Luca |
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Sept 22, 2021 12:40:01 GMT -8
But Rollinson at this time appears to be more caretaker/rain-maker than an actual hands-on coach. With all due respect, Luca, Bruce Rollinson is still as much a hands-on coach as any of his assistants, and more than some. If that were true, why couldn't Loyola do it, or De La Salle, or Long Beach Poly, or Mission Viejo, or a dozen others? Do you mean like what happened at JSerra? With all sincerity, I will ask for the umpteenth time: What is it that posters here think Mater Dei is doing that other Trinity League schools aren't? Four months ago I posted the following, explaining in some detail what turned the Mater Dei program around and why it's continuing to flourish today. I asked the same question at the end of that post and still have never received a serious answer. Bick, if there’s one thing I’ve learned from being on these kinds of forums for over 20 years, it’s that people are going to believe what they want to believe. I’ve come across dozens of posters who have no insights into the logistics or inner workings of high school football programs at a particular school, yet they will pontificate with total confidence about the virtues or evils of what goes on this those programs. It’s frustrating and disappointing, but I recognize it as being some of the lifeblood of these forums. It is what it is, and I can’t change it.
With that said, I will start my 20th year as part of the Mater Dei program this fall, so I hope you believe I have some insights and a more unique perspective of what goes on there than some others on this forum or on others. So I will tell my version of what happened at Mater Dei, how it changed things, and the exact date that it occurred.
The date was Apr. 11, 2015. In March and early April of that year, the Inland Empire Ducks were arguably the best and most talented 8th grade football team in the country. As their players became high school freshmen, most of the best historically moved on to Corona Centennial, while some others enrolled at St. John Bosco, Norco, and a few other schools, depending on where the kids lived. Players like Bru McCoy were on their way to St. John Bosco in the fall, and Shakobe Harper was headed for Long Beach Poly.
Also in February and March of that year, there was a Best In The West 7-on-7 passing tournament that was one of the best in the Western states. That organization put on six or eight regional tournaments throughout California, Arizona and Nevada. The winners and second-place finishers of those tournaments came to Fullerton College on Apr. 11 for the championship tournament that would determine “the best in the west”. All of the teams that showed up that day were club teams composed of the best high school players in their areas who would be juniors and seniors in the fall. All of them except one. A team of primarily 8th grade I.E. Ducks players finished second in a regional tournament in Fontana in March, and they were there to compete against the 15 best club teams from those three western states.
The quarterback of that team was J.T. Daniels. Furthermore, the team had a defensive coach who helped coach the defense throughout the day, but the offensive coach had another commitment and was absent. So Daniels not only had to lead his offense against all-star teams of athletes two and three years older, he also had to call all his own offensive plays. Somehow, that team won its first game to advance to the round of eight. They won their second game to make the semifinals. They won their semifinal game to advance to the championship game, which they lost by a touchdown. It didn’t really matter. There were a couple hundred coaches and dads at the end of that day who were waking around not believing what they had just seen. And that was the day everything changed.
The Daniels family lived in Irvine near UCI, so University was their local public high school. But J.T. had watched that excellent documentary about the Mater Dei-Servite rivalry on TV when he was in 5th or 6th grade, and from that night on, he was determined to play for Mater Dei. If anyone knows J.T., he has always had a focus and been driven in a way that is amazing. When he sets his mind on something, it takes a truck to move him.
So when it became clear that he was coming to Mater Dei, other families changed their minds. Bru McCoy and Shakobe Harper enrolled at the school to play with J.T. Other top freshmen who enrolled for the same reason were Syrr Barnes, Steele Dubar, Jojo Forrest, Cam Gardner, the Kinslow twins, Michael Martinez, Trent McDuffie, William Nimmo and Titus Toler, most of whom had been headed elsewhere.
When Daniels started as a freshman and had an excellent year, the incoming freshman class the following season included stars like Kody Epps, Darion Green, Tai Marks, Myles Murao, Dean Neeley, Elias Ricks, Chris Street and Nate White. They all came to play with J.T. As did transfers Xavier Bell, the Faoliu brothers, Roman Kafentzis and the St. Brown brothers.
The team won a national championship in 2017. They won another in 2018. They were on their way to a third in a row in 2019 when a last minute fumble on the Bosco 11-yard-line while going in for the winning score denied them. Calpreps named them #1 in the nation after the just completed Covid-shortened spring season, and one rating agency already has them as their preseason #1 in the nation going into this fall. That’s what does the attracting and recruiting.
Since late 2017, the flow of top athletes inquiring to transfer or schedule a shadow day has not stopped. The players who have been turned away would form an all-star team that nobody could beat. When we beat Bosco this past Apr. 17, the inquiries started again on Monday, the 19th, and they continue almost every day. So far, not a single athlete has been accepted. It’s no different than why so many of the nation’s top high school seniors want to play at Alabama.
As far as “who is knocking on whose door”, it’s part of my job to get to know most of the players and their parents. I’ve known almost all the kids and parents who transferred in and transferred out, and the reasons they did so. I can say in my 20 years, there has been one case of “recruiting” by making initial contact with a family at another school. That was in 2010, the coach who made the contact was fired, and the family never came. Bick, if you want to know who that player was, send me a PM.
So that brings me to the question, what are the evil things that people insist Mater Dei is doing wrong? And more specifically, other than being an attractive, co-ed school, with a record of almost all their college scholarship athletes earning a degree, and with a program that, with the exception of one unfortunate sack and fumble, could have been seeking its 5th straight national championship this fall, what is that school doing that other schools aren’t? |
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Post by frankieboy1 on Sept 22, 2021 17:53:49 GMT -8
I'd be surprised if the Trinity league stays intact in the next couple years. Coupled with what seems to be slim pickings for local opponents, you may very well have to face that reality sooner than later. You may not always get what you want, but you always get what you choose. Don't see it happening. The other 4 schools are still very good teams a notch above most public programs, with the exception of Mission Viejo/Corona Centennial/Norco. There's also the question of other sports, where they are very competitive, and in some cases, elite (JSerra baseball/girls soccer and SM girls sports across the board come to mind). Basketball is top-drawer across the board with the exception of Servite. At the end of the day-the schools have more in common than they don't. And over time the "big 2" will come back to the pack and while they will be very good, not as dominant as they are now. One more reason the TL won't end anytime soon-SJB/MD get at least 5 guaranteed games/year that disappear if they leave. And the other 4 schools get to say they are in the Trinity League, much like Vanderbilt and Mississippi can say it's in the SEC.big-time prestige factor when you play the likes of Alabama every year. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Sept 22, 2021 21:40:30 GMT -8
Since late 2017, the flow of top athletes inquiring to transfer or schedule a shadow day has not stopped. The players who have been turned away would form an all-star team that nobody could beat. When we beat Bosco this past Apr. 17, the inquiries started again on Monday, the 19th, and they continue almost every day. So far, not a single athlete has been accepted. It’s no different than why so many of the nation’s top high school seniors want to play at Alabama. As far as “who is knocking on whose door”, it’s part of my job to get to know most of the players and their parents. I’ve known almost all the kids and parents who transferred in and transferred out, and the reasons they did so. I can say in my 20 years, there has been one case of “recruiting” by making initial contact with a family at another school. That was in 2010, the coach who made the contact was fired, and the family never came. Bick, if you want to know who that player was, send me a PM. So that brings me to the question, what are the evil things that people insist Mater Dei is doing wrong? And more specifically, other than being an attractive, co-ed school, with a record of almost all their college scholarship athletes earning a degree, and with a program that, with the exception of one unfortunate sack and fumble, could have been seeking its 5th straight national championship this fall, what is that school doing that other schools aren’t? I think I've said enough times that I don't think what MD and SJB are doing is wrong. Free market, right? I was glad to see MD kick the snot out of Duncanville, and Bosco do the same to the VA school. But the fact is, they've just outgrown the locals here, have ascended to national level programs, and should be playing a national schedule. You've got to admit that no one can compete with you here in the past 6 years. That's just...different. Not buying the "kids can't miss class" stuff. We just went thru a year of remote learning, so let's put that one to rest. The issue becomes finding the funding for a national / regional travel schedule. I think you guys will figure it out or play less games. |
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Luca
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Post by Luca on Sept 23, 2021 11:19:45 GMT -8
One more reason the TL won't end anytime soon-SJB/MD get at least 5 guaranteed games/year that disappear if they leave. And the other 4 schools get to say they are in the Trinity League, much like Vanderbilt and Mississippi can say it's in the SEC.big-time prestige factor when you play the likes of Alabama every year. I think he means it will be the other four Trinity teams that might choose to break away from MD/Bosco (not vice versa) over the football mismatches. The "prestige factor" you mention is minimal if it exists at all, and certainly not compelling enough to want to continue with futile efforts against stacked teams operating under a different set of rules/motivation. I'm not so involved with HSFB any more but I still hear serious consideration regarding just skipping the FB games with MD/Bosco. |
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Bick
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Post by Bick on Sept 23, 2021 12:10:28 GMT -8
That happened in the league Sierra Canyon belonged to.
The other teams basically said "OK, you win, now we'll play against teams we can compete with."
With CIF playoffs no longer being league dependent, I think the possibility of something similar happening in the TL for football is realistic.
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Sept 27, 2021 9:25:20 GMT -8
Well, they got what they wanted, new stadiums, sell outs and television!!!
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Sept 27, 2021 20:19:32 GMT -8
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MDDad
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Post by MDDad on Sept 29, 2021 12:18:05 GMT -8
For seven years on TOB and this forum I posted what I called The Mustang Ranch Award, presented to the biggest whorehouse in the Trinity League based on the number of transfers on their varsity team. I didn't do it this past spring because the whole season was such a mess, but someone asked me to start it up again. So here it is. The Mustang Ranch Award for 2021 goes to: Orange Lutheran!
Most Transfers On Varsity Team
28 - Orange Lutheran
25 - St. John Bosco
17 - Santa Margarita
11 - Mater Dei
9 - Servite
8 - JSerra
Most Transfers Acquired In Just This Past Off-Season
12 - St. John Bosco
11 - Santa Margarita
9 - Orange Lutheran
8 - JSerra
4 - Servite
1 - Mater Dei
In defense of my program, this is the fifth time in seven years we have finished in the bottom half of the list, and we have never finished first. And the one transfer we picked up this off-season is a technicality. He attended Mater Dei as a freshman and sophomore, stayed home as a junior and was home-schooled during the Covid pandemic, and now has returned to Mater Dei for his senior year. He has never attended another high school, but the CIF still considers him a transfer.
Let the complaining and nit-picking begin!
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Sept 29, 2021 21:21:59 GMT -8
My brother, just stop already, we have digested and regurgitated this oh so more than often over the years....., MD didn't get to where they are by any other mean than what you keep trying to prove out they didn't. Whether transferred or not, your team is a creation by means of GATHERING in which no other can touch, "transfer" or not, ENOUGH. We cried uncle long ago. Now just sit back and let those national televised games do all the recruiting......  |
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Oct 1, 2021 7:45:18 GMT -8
From last night's game:
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SK80
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Post by SK80 on Oct 1, 2021 8:25:34 GMT -8
ya that INT lit up my Twitter.... super talent...
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Credo
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Post by Credo on Oct 2, 2021 15:14:50 GMT -8
I guess Bosco's shiny new gold helmets didn't reverse what is becoming a lopsided rivalry.
Crisis in Brave Nation! What more can they do?
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